Asante Bradford Talks Esports and Entertainment with Ryan Millsap

Ryan Millsap, Chairman & CEO of Atlanta-based Blackhall Studios, is one of today’s top entertainment executives! With a vision for Blackhall that’s ambitious, energizing, and boundless, Millsap is blazing a trail through the heart of the South – and setting his sights on the future of entertainment. Listen and learn as Ryan Millsap journeys through the myriad industries, people, and landscapes that traverse the complex and dynamic world of film production.

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Ryan: Welcome to the Blackhall Studios Podcast. I'm Ryan Millsap. I got into the moviemaking business by being a real estate entrepreneur, but also because I'm a big movie fan. I get a huge kick out of watching blockbuster movies that I watch being made at Blackhall. COVID-19 has put a temporary crimp in production — hasn't it for everybody? But some amazing movies will be shooting at our studio soon, and I'll have some amazing folks on the podcast.

I'm also into ethics and philosophy, and I think you'll see those themes throughout the podcast. So, you're wondering: where exactly does the movie business and philosophy come together? That's the journey I want to take you on on the Blackhall Studios Podcast. I’ll bring you guests from both worlds, and I think you'll be surprised at how much philosophy goes into the world of making movies. Plus, you'll get an inside look at the new Hollywood of the South right here in Atlanta, Georgia. Give a listen. I think you'll enjoy what you hear. I'm happy to have you along for the ride on the Blackhall Studios Podcast.

Today, I've got a great guest: Asante Bradford. Asante works for the Georgia Department of Economic Development, recruiting companies to Georgia, and he is Project Manager for the Digital Entertainment and Emerging Media Division. If you know anything about economic development, you'll know it's crucial to any and every state across the nation. Overseeing growth in both digital and emerging media is like overseeing the Wild West. And Georgia has a kick-ass cowboy in this role. Let's talk with Asante Bradford.

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Ryan: Welcome to the Blackhall Studios Podcast. Today on the podcast, we have Asante Bradford, who's the point man in the state of Georgia for digital entertainment and media with the Georgia Department of Economic Development —  and a friend of mine. Asante, welcome.

Asante: Hey! Thank you, man. Excited to be here.

Ryan: Well, this is our first podcast —  live, in-person interview —  post-COVID, which is exciting.

Asante: Oh, man. Wow. And I get that call, huh?

Ryan: You’ve got to go to the best when you’re going live.

Asante: OK, I like you guys. I’m gonna hang out more with y’all.

Ryan: So, you're seeing all kinds of crazy cool stuff happen in the state of Georgia. Let's start with e-sports. That's got to be one of the areas that's blowing up the most. Tell me about what's going on in the e-sports world here in Georgia.

Asante: Before I get to that, though, I want to build and say how excited I am, Ryan, that we're finally getting to play together. Oh, wait —  did I say that right. Yeah. We could play together. I mean, you’re a handsome dude. But you know what I'm saying?

Ryan: Ha ha ha. We're playing together in the NBA bubble.

Asante: There you go. In the bubble, man. But what I'm really excited to see now is the gaming technology coming out, with film and technology coming together. And I think e-sports was, obviously, our entryway into that. And again, for us —  last time, we hung out in L.A. I'm getting to hang out with Ryan and Sylvester Stallone and all these big names. And he's like, “No big deal.” I'm trying to figure out how to get me a selfie. But, the point being —  what I remember about that, Ryan, was that you were telling me about the business. And I don't think a lot of people know that, in L.A., all these guys hang together —  right?

Ryan: That’s exactly right.

Asante: That’s where we were. I had a gaming meeting. But you're there —  film, TV; doing all that. So I'm excited, first off, to be able to start playing with our film industry here. And that's what really got me excited about e-sports. About... I think it was about 2012, 13, I did my first trade mission. And we went to one of the biggest game conferences, GamesCon, in Germany. We took five of our local companies. And that alone really exposed me —  especially to the broadcast side of e-sports.

We had one of our largest game companies, Hi Rez. There’s a game called Smite. And I'm there, watching in their stadium. I'm seeing all of these kids, really, watching a big screen —  watching these kids play video games. That was great. But literally, behind the scenes —  I walked behind, and looked at it like, “Oh my God, this is a TV show. This is a broadcast, right?” That's what got my interest in this. I was like, “You know what, man? I think, eventually, they're going to play together. It's just a matter of time before they're playing together.”

Ryan: Well, it's already happening. Think about the movie Ready Player One, which was, I think, an early entry. And then you look at Jumanji, which is about going into a video game. And I think we're going to see more and more of this interplay of narrative around video gaming. But one of the things you mentioned at the beginning, which I think is worth exploring a little bit, is what's happened with the show Mandalorian, on the Star Wars side —  and maybe tell people a little bit about how gaming engines and LED screens are starting to impact the filming of film and television.

Asante: That's how we're coming together. But, cooler than that, is that you even know about that, Ryan. Frank, and you guys —  all of our studios. I love it. You guys are like entrepreneurs, man. And I love that you guys get this stuff. It just makes it easy for us to have these discussions. And you're already there. You guys have to be looking that way. And I love it that, again, now we can have these discussions.

So, to answer your question there, man —  I'm all on that, Ryan. I think that this is our opportunity to lead; to be the leaders. That's what I'm saying. Now we're coming together. And think about our young talent in that. Basically, it's the same skill set, right? So, you're right. The making of The Mandalorian right now —  if you're on your computer, go watch that on YouTube, because you will literally see the future of the industry. Well, excuse me —  the present.

Ryan: The future of the industry. That's right.

Asante: It’s not even the future anymore.

Ryan: Yeah. You can just Google “Mandalorian, Star Wars, making of,” and a lot of cool videos will come up on YouTube about using gaming engines and LED screens as backdrops — really, in replacement of green screens and blue screens —  and creating an environment that's going to hopefully lead to a lot less post-production. It kind of rolls out, and it's much closer to a finished product.

Asante: You see the cost, too? What do you see on the cost side?

Ryan: Well, interestingly, I know you know Chris Ledoux. Chris, at Crafty Apes —  they do a huge amount of post-production. Chris and I have been in a dialogue about creating a Mandalorian-type stage as a test here at Blackhall —  where we can start to see if we can take this technology that, right now, is being used by the very top end of the production houses, and bring that technology down into kind of the mid-level. Because if you can translate it into the mid-level, then you can save that mid-level a huge amount of money —  if you can provide them the equipment and the gaming engines, and show them how to use it in the way that they need, so that they don't have to build it from scratch, employ the people that know how to use it, etc...

And so, you deliver another service to the production companies that right now doesn't exist, because this technology is being used by so few people. The basics —  and I'll give you guys, everybody, a little bit of a brief on this. The basics of it are: imagine a wall that is all LED, and maybe it's in a circle. Then you set-design the floor. You only film up to the top of the LED screen. And in so doing, you're filming the protagonists —  or whoever's being filmed —  inside of the environment where you want them to be, but it's not a set that you had to build. It's just a digital projection. Well, not even a projection. It's just a digital wall that is such high-quality definition —  super high def, to where it feels like they're actually in the desert, or they're actually on the ocean, or they're actually climbing a mountain, or whatever it is. You can then take them to different worlds very quickly. Kind of like what you might see in a sci-fi movie.

You think back to, like, time-travel jumping, or being beamed down to a new environment like in Star Trek. It's kind of like that in the sense that you can totally change the environment very quickly. And that's the notion of this technology that has the potential to be so game-changing. Because right now, it takes so long to build every set. That's kind of the brief on The Mandalorian.

Asante: And on the tech side, it's actually company called Epic in North Carolina —  our neighbors —  and the Unreal game engine. You can actually build out these sets in this game engine. So, for us, it only makes sense that we have 150+ game companies here now. If we could start training our talent to start building out these? I'm like, “We're going to jump ahead of everybody,” right?

So I'm all on that. Earlier, we had a call this morning with a high school —  because our local game developer association, GTA, actually got a mega-grant from Epic. Shout-out, Andrew. He’s really focused more on the colleges. And that's cool. But I'm like, “This has got be in high schools; elementary. Let's get our kids. I mean, these kids are so talented, man. Don't take them lightly.” So that's where I'm at. We had a call today with the Georgia High School Association. And that's the idea —  to train a trainer. So that's what this grant is. It’s about training our teachers to train this program. So, I'm real excited, Ryan. You knew that.

Ryan: Well, the Georgia Film Academy —  didn't they recently expand beyond just film and television into gaming?

Asante: Exactly. An e-sports curriculum now. So, that's where we're going to lead. I'll give a shoutout to all of my partners as well, real quick. Let me take that time to really shout out all of the folks. And I know you feel the same on the film industry. It's not just a one-man shop here. I feel the same thing with what's going on in e-sports. I mentioned GGDA. But even events —  MomoCon out there, and different things —  they're all growing this e-sports space for us.

So I'm like, to the point where... again, with Epic, and the potentially mega-grant that we can get our high schools and start training. He was... actually, I'm sorry. The gentleman with the school was just breaking out. And it's just not Atlanta. This is literally in rural counties. He mentioned that some students are taking just gaming. And I was blown away by it. So, yeah; my focus now is, as these two industries come together, how do we lead? How do we get our talent to lead? I'm really excited about it, Ryan.

Ryan: Right. So, we're working on a project with the Georgia Film Academy and the DeKalb County School District to bring a film, television, and gaming program to McNair High School, which is just up the street.

Asante: Oh, nice. Yeah.

Ryan: Which I think is going to be exciting. And when you talk about the high schools, that's where you can really tap into the imagination of the kids, right? Think about it: one of the struggles that you see inside high schools all across the country is helping kids that are age 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, have imagination for what they're going to do with all of their energy, creativity, etc. I mean, a lot of the societal problems we see come from lack of imagination; lack of understanding of all the options that they have.

And so I think it's fascinating to see how that program has an impact over time. McNair High School was built, I believe, for 1600 kids. And today, I think there's less than 600 that attend McNair High School.

Asante: Oh, wow.

Ryan: Because they have school of choice. And it's become a school that hasn't been a school of choice. But I think we can rectify that pretty rapidly.

Asante: I totally agree with that. And —  to be honest with you, too —  I feel like, on a state level, we feel the same. Obviously, a lot of kids go get jobs, and that's fine. But we've had this talk. We gotta start starting some CEOs here, man. So I agree with you. If we can start getting these tools to these kids a little younger, into their minds —  I totally agree with you. With a little direction? I think that's it. I think that's a formula, Ryan, for us to continue growing, and to build this workforce. But not just build workers.

I'm like, “Hey, they can start their own businesses right now, right? They can start making income. We can start taxing them. We can... there's enough for everybody.” And again, I'm so with you on these kids. I just think you’ve got to put the tools in their hands. I would love to sit back and watch. Watch them germinate; watch them grow.

Ryan: Well, it seems like the state is really behind this as well. What's your experience inside the politics of growth?

Asante: We've had that talk, too, Ryan. I ain't gonna lie, man. I wasn’t feeling you at first. But then —  you know what's so funny? I want to get back to that. You are so right.

So, I will say this, man —  from the governor down, I’ve got the best, most incredible support that I could get. My boss is from the commissioner, and all of that. They are all on board. And you know what? Even the legislators, man. I want to definitely talk about the adjustment to the credits. I want to definitely get your viewpoint. I loved your quote, by the way. “They all have kids, man. They all have kids.”

Ryan: That’s right.

Asante: So they get it. And not just here in Atlanta, too —  which is really exciting to me. This is literally a statewide initiative. They all get it with their kids. And hey, again: if we can lead —  and I think the state has seen that in entertainment, from backing the new changes to the tax credit —  that's huge, man.

But even, to go back to your question again, we’re one of the only states to have an e-sports tax credit. So, to me —  for them to actually put it on the line? Like, “Hey man, we're going to invest in this.” That's a serious investment, right? So, our companies are literally attracting Georgia across the world. Nobody else has that right now. So we're really excited.

We actually had a great call yesterday with the ESA —  one of the big gaming associations. Now they're highlighting us —  they want to highlight us because of these things that are happening. So yeah, man. To answer your question, our legislative caucus and support is on an incredible level. I just feel total support for whatever I want to do.

Ryan: Do you think that the legislative members and the governor understand the quality of these jobs from a psychological standpoint? The difference between high-paying jobs that may be a grind, and high paying jobs that are also high-happiness jobs? Do you think they get that difference?

Asante: I don't know, on that part. I mean, we have discussions with them and all, but I don't know about that part —  because you know what? To be honest, this is really new.

Ryan: That's fair.

Asante: So, it’s just like the film industry, which —  as you know —  took a little time to educate. We've been through a few iterations on the tax credit.

Ryan: That's true. We have, yeah.

Asante: And you have to adjust to the industry. So, I don't know if we’ve gotten that mature yet. I think it's still relatively new to them. I think they get it. They see the numbers. You’re talking about a multi-billion-dollar industry.

Ryan: Sure. You know, what I'm specifically thinking about is the economic impact of having a happy workforce.

Asante: Break that down for me.

Ryan: Think about the fact that if somebody is making a lot of money, but they're really unhappy with the work they're doing, then they might have depression, which might lead to all sorts of other illnesses, which might lead to all sorts of other drag on health care and their families and their kids, etcetera, etcetera. Whereas you do the exact opposite thought experiment —  you say, “Now, imagine a world where somebody wakes up in the morning and they're so excited about what they get to go do today.”

You find that inside the entertainment industry. These are high-happiness jobs from the top to the bottom. Directors are generally excited about working. The actors are generally excited about working. The producers are generally excited about working —  all the way down into IATSE and the Teamsters. These drivers —  they could go drive all sorts of things in the world, but they get to drive entertainment vehicles, making a huge movie, where they might be driving The Rock around. Or at least, they're driving a set to the stage that The Rock is going to be filming on. And they might even get to watch that. And then, when the film is over, their names go in lights in those permanent credits.

That level of psychological reward creates a lot of joy. So now, you have people that are making whatever amount of money —  probably more than they would be, doing the same skill or trade in another industry. But then they get all these other psychological, joyful benefits that they get to take home to their families. I think that that virtuous cycle of high happiness is an untapped understanding as to the impact —  the quality impact —  it can have on a general economy, if you can create as many happiness jobs as possible.

I think gaming is one of these areas. Film and television is one of these areas. And to see that growth in our economy, I think, is going to have huge psychological benefits beyond just the economic benefits.

Asante: Ryan, I have never heard that before. And I'm going to tell you, man —  that is a huge statement. And you are right. Because I would tell you, again —  we're still on the, the first floor. But those are things that I'm gonna use, man. I'm like, “Okay, we’ve gotta get some research going on that.” I’ve never heard of that, but it makes total sense, right?

Ryan: Well, it's a pure working theory that I have. I'm not a psychology professor.

Asante: Just get some Georgia Tech kids on that math.

Ryan: I would love that. I mean, we should get some people doing studies on the difference. It's going to be long-term studies, right? Because it's going to be generational impact studies on having jobs that people actually find joy in.

Asante: I love that, Ryan.

Asante: But intuitively, it makes perfect sense to me. And that's one of the reasons why I was so drawn to this industry —  and drawn to this industry inside the state of Georgia. Watching, historically, if you think that Georgia was driven by Coca-Cola and Delta Airlines and Home Depot and UPS —  all of whom had reputations as being outstanding employers that people found joy in working for. But I'd say a lot of those jobs inside of those companies... it wasn't that the jobs themselves were high happiness, right? It was that they had great benefits. They had good culture. All these things that were not always true in big companies.

So, we were fortunate in this state to already have big companies with great cultures. Now what we're doing is, we're adding jobs themselves where the work in and of itself has a psychological reward that goes way beyond a lot of the kind of the baseline logistics industries.

Asante: I totally, totally get that, Ryan. I mean, using myself as an example: I came here kind of in the dot-com era, and it was the same thing going on, man. The people were all Silicon Valley, but Atlanta was doing its thing. And it was so exciting. It was so exciting for me just to get in those positions. You know what was interesting, too? Another parallel is, that's kind of one of the big tenets we use to sell Georgia. It’s the quality of life; all of that. It's the wellness that's here. You’re not going to get that in California. You can, but it's not the same, as you know.

Ryan: It's not even close to this.

Asante: Right, right, right. And I love that. I've never heard that. And I will definitely take that to heart, man. That's one thing I will take from this.

Ryan: Where did you grow up?

Asante: I'm an L.A. boy.

Ryan: We're in L.A.?

Asante: Crenshaw area. Boyz n the Hood.

Ryan: How do you describe to people the difference between living in Los Angeles and living in Atlanta?

Asante: Atlanta literally sells itself, you know? But you’ve got to get them here. So, that's your question. It is those three things. Quality of life; cost of living being one. Obviously, the tax credit, because they’re cheap out there. They’ve got those high rents. And then, talent. It’s really interesting to talk about talent, because over the years that we've been doing this, now the talent is just rising to the top. And I would put our talent up almost against anybody. Maybe not Cali, but against a lot of folks.

Because when you have the cross-breeding —  and then I think that's... on our level, the state, we have to do a better job of that; of cross-breeding. I remember a couple of years ago, SCAD and Georgia Tech did a mobile class together, back when mobile was kind of starting. We need all of that. Could you imagine, if we’re getting our kids from those schools —  Emory and Georgia State and even an AUC? I’m just like, “Let me get them in a room together.” I think that that sort of talent is the other thing now that's really driving that California move, outside of California.

Ryan: So let's look at gaming the gaming world versus entertainment for a second. In the entertainment world in Georgia, we don't have a lot of development —  which is all the pre-production; the ideas, and the intellectual property development. We have a lot of the actual, physical production of that intellectual property. And then, we don't have a lot of post-production. I mean, we do have some guys like Chris Ledoux and Crafty Apes, but a lot of the post-production takes place back in Los Angeles as well.

The next big growth cycle for us will only come from stability. So, we need years of stability, both with the tax credit and social stability —  around non-legislation of moral issues that can be very contentious. We need the simplicity and ease of that continuity in order to get people to a place where they say “Georgia is a place where I can put down roots — ” deep roots on the development side, and deep roots on the post-production side —  and not just utilize it as a manufacturing base.

We're glad to have the manufacturing. It's fantastic business, but it really leads to the whole ecosystem —  which Tyler Perry has. Tyler Perry has the whole ecosystem. He's developing all his own product. He's writing a lot of his own product. He's funding a lot of his own product. And then he's making it here. He's post-producing it here and distributing it —  with partners all over the world, but really finishing everything right here in Georgia.

Now, on the gaming side, what's interesting is that we have these creators that are really developing product here in Georgia. Where did that come from? How did the gaming world —  the gaming ecosystem —  leapfrog right to the center of ideas and have Atlanta be a hub for that?

Asante: Wow. You know, Ryan, I never thought of that, either. You’re hitting me in some spots. I’ve never... I wasn't even prepared for it. But we've had this discussion too. As a matter of fact, I think we've been leading that discussion about this. Again, when certain legislation may come in place, and then Hollywood is threatening to leave, what are we going to do? I know we've had that talk, and I totally agree with you.

But I’ve never thought of the game industry. And you are so right. I think there's a couple factors in that, because when I started, it was maybe five companies. And now there’s over 150 companies. You're right; it's not the big boys. It's all organic growth, which I think is just amazing. I really hardly look at that. But you're right. These guys all own their own IP. Some of them are even doing their own publishing.

Ryan: We, right now, have 150 miniature gaming Tyler Perrys growing in the state of Georgia.

Asante: Right.

Ryan: Is that right?

Asante: I would say five pretty big ones. And yeah, the rest of them are... five, ten-man teams.

Ryan: But still, it's 150 individual teams creating content.

Asante: All creating their own IP. Yeah, I never thought of that either.

Ryan: I mean, that is phenomenal. Where else has any ecosystem been like that?

Asante: Nothing. Nothing like it. Because usually, it takes one of the bigger companies, a game company, to set up —  like Austin. Right? And then everybody comes later. It's almost like the car industry. When we got Kia, we got all of this stuff that comes with it, right? That's it. And we have not had... it's all been organic here.

Now, I will say we're in some discussions. But the cool part is, those companies —  the big companies —  are looking like, “Wait, man; they’ve got 150 game companies here. We'd better go and get in the mix.”

Ryan: We’d better go in and start acquiring.

Asante: Exactly. There you go. So, we had Ubisoft acquire one of our big ones. And I will say the other ones are looking. So now they're calling me, Ryan. They're like, “Well, wait a minute.” It's almost like you can't... we cannot be in that midst. Right? “They got a brand-new IP. They’ve got all this young talent. We have to play in that.”

Ryan: How do we keep our great young game developers, and that intellectual property —  and that intellectual property development, which is all coming from the minds of these young, creative, entrepreneurial gamers?

Asante: They're not leaving, Ryan.

Ryan: That's the key. So, how do we keep them from getting bought out by these big companies?

Asante: But again, even the ones that are buying them out...

Ryan: They leave them here.

Asante: They're okay now. We went through that issue too with Silicon. And I know you've had some. We talked about it on the investment side. Building investment here has been very tough. We should talk about that, by the way. But now the companies out there are like, “Okay.” Matter of fact, we are such a position because of the tax and SCAD. They're already recruiting here.

I'm going out in a meeting with them. I'm like, “Oh yeah, Billy went to SCAD, and Johnny went to Tech.” They already know that. And they're already coming here and recruiting. And now they’ve got to find... there's no more room at Stanford for them to keep going. They have to find other young talent. So yes, Boston's a big place. But they're too damn expensive. Sorry, I cursed. But Atlanta —  Tech and SCAD and State. I can keep going with all our young talent.

Ryan: Well, when you look it at from a cost of living standpoint —  and a quality of life standpoint, as we've talked about —  it's hard to find another city in the United States to put head to head with Atlanta, in my opinion, because I think Atlanta has so many things going for it compared to Los Angeles.

Asante: We are ‘New Hollywood.’ I guess I'm going to go with that. Right?

Ryan: Well, maybe on the gaming side. We're still just Hollywood. We use ‘Hollywood’ in the way that somebody might use ‘Kleenex’ to just describe a tissue. Right? Hollywood is just a term to describe all production. It's just been attributed. It's beyond geography at this point. So calling us the Hollywood of the South really has no direct tie to Los Angeles.

It's just that we're the southern center of production in the world. It's us. It's Los Angeles; it's New York; it's London; it's Toronto; it's Vancouver. In the United States, Georgia competes with L.A. and New York... kind of. But not really, because New York and L.A. are different ecosystems. Our real competition is the UK and Canada. And Georgia goes head-to-head with those two major countries and wins.

Asante: I do all the time.

Ryan: And you win.

Asante: Yeah. Well, you know.

Ryan: Not all the time.

Asante: I don't really... again, as of now, I still think I'm the only person dedicated in any state here. And you're right. I mean, it's always Canada that comes up, because they’ve got great credit. But they have done what we're doing. It’s that young talent —  from Vancouver; Montreal. They have built up that talent level.

And then, the other thing you talked about early, too, is that post-production side. I totally agree. We are definitely putting as much effort as we can to see that grow. The post-production alliance out there, guys —  hey, shout out to you. We're in those discussions all the time. “How can we do this?” I will say that we are in the running for a couple of big post companies. I will say that I'm getting special effects companies looking our way now. Definitely, I feel that that opportunity is huge.

Now, on the film side, that's not me. That's going to be you —  to convince these guys about that. But I will continue, like I said, in the digital side; on the entertainment side of stuff. I do think we have a great advantage.

Ryan: Well, we're getting to the point in the life cycle of film and television in the state of Georgia where the next big move is going to be on the investment side; on the capital side.

Asante: Yeah. So, let's talk about that, because we've had that discussion for a while. I know you've done that. You're pushing that still, right? I know we’ve done that with independent movies and stuff.

Ryan: We've flirted with some of it. We've dabbled in some of it. We've developed some things that are getting pushed along farther in the life cycle of production. I have not focused yet on raising Georgia money to make film and television. But that's coming. We're in the process of doing a massive global expansion on the physical side.

Asante: Congratulations on that, by the way.

Ryan: Thank you. It's pretty amazing. The tailwinds are crazy good.

Asante: Good. Well, you’ve still got more love for Atlanta, right?

Ryan: Well, Atlanta is the hub.

Asante: Okay. Just making sure.

Ryan: Right? It’s no different than how you want to see Coca-Cola go all over the world —  because Coca-Cola money then builds this state. And you want to see Home Depot expand all over the United States and become huge, because then Arthur Blank buys the Falcons. You want to see homegrown Georgia companies go out and spread their wings and bring back money from all over the world. And that's what Blackhall is doing.

When we talk about expanding to London and L.A. and Canada, that expansion is not in any way against what we're doing here in Georgia. In fact, we're tripling our size here in Georgia. But we're just also going to the places that our clients want to be that are not Georgia —  because they need to make production in London, and they need to be in Canada, and they certainly need more space in Los Angeles. So we meet all of those needs. But then we can bring all those profits back to our home company.

Asante: That's great.

Ryan: Right. And it just gives us a lot more strength, and allows us to do a lot more good in the community, because there's more free cash flow. So then, when we're partnering with McNair High School, five years from now, I can say, “Well, maybe we'll just build XYZ.” But in the short run, we have less capital. In the long run, we’ll have more capital. You really just want that capital base to be the place where you want to have the biggest impact. And in our case, that's Georgia.

Asante: That's great, man. Congratulations on that. And you're right —  you're building a brand that's exciting for us to brag about. Again, you start here. Same thing with the game companies. Very similar, man. They built the brand here. And now, these guys —  some of them have some of the top esports games out there. And guess what? Everybody’s, “Oh man. That's a Georgia company.”

Ryan: Well, that's where it gets really fun. I mean, we've talked about it from the beginning of this industry. Well, I mean, the industry goes back into the 70s. But from this leg of its expansion —  which has been meteoric —  there’s the idea that Georgians now are starting to psychologically identify with making movies, the way they psychologically identify with drinking Coca-Cola, flying Delta, eating Chick-Fil-A, shopping at Home Depot instead of Lowe's, sending things UPS instead of FedEx. Right? Those are all like psychological Georgia things.

Well, now, psychologically, Georgians think of themselves as filmmakers. That's what we do. We drink Coca-Cola; we eat Chick-Fil-A; we make films. And we make video games. Right? This is where then it becomes part of the zeitgeist a of a culture that has the kind of impact that, then, people start to say, “How else can we feed those industries that are giving so much back to our culture?” And I think that's where the next phase is on the entertainment side.

The gaming side, fortunately, already has that capital; that development capital. Because, think about how much money is lost trying to develop stuff that doesn't work. Talk a little bit about that. What you see —  these entrepreneurs on the gaming side. How many failures do they have for every one victory?

Asante: Oh, man. You know, it's interesting that you say that, too. And I'll get to that in a second. But I look at you as a CEO. And I get blessed, man. I get to talk to some of the most creative, innovative guys out there who run these companies. And it's so funny. A lot of them made their money in the dot-com era. Which is cool. I would literally tell you that people like yourself could run a dog food company just as much —  because it is those lessons learned that are becoming valuable to anything.

So, yeah —  I have a friend, and he was in the game industry. He actually ran CCP. Mike, shout-out. And he has these breakfasts. He does these ‘CEO breakfasts,’ as he calls them. I was like, “How do they turn out?” and whatever. He said, “You know what, man? The bottom line that everybody learned is — ” and I'm not going to curse —  but “It's the screw-ups that you share with the other ones that become the most valuable stuff. That’s what it is. Everybody's talking about their screw-ups, so you know not to go down that highway.”

And so, to answer your question, I would tell you —  for these guys, to me, like yourself —  it doesn't matter what vertical; what industry. It's those life experiences, your failures, that make it. I look at a Chris Claus —  one of the first guys I got exposed to at the job, dropping out of Georgia Tech to take a chance on his company and become very rich. It was the lessons he learned. He was with ISS —  again, one of the dot-com companies.

So yeah, man. To answer your question, I think these guys can run anything. I think that the skill level, and the mistakes you make, are literally gold. That's what's going to drive you to continue being successful. And it’s also going to show you, when you see that that bump in the road, how to get around it without wasting a lot of time, money; whatever.

Ryan: Well, when you're developing video games or content on the entertainment side, there will be failures. That's just a given. And if you're afraid to experience failure, then you're never going to find those huge successes. Now, that's a luxury item, because you have to have a lot of capital in order to make enough ‘bets.’ I mean, ‘bets’ feels like the wrong word, because there's so much work involved; there's so much thought involved. It's not just like, “I bet on red; I bet on black.” It's not like I'm spinning the roulette wheel. But let's just call them bets.

To make those intelligent, thoughtful, considered bets, with the knowledge that some of them are going to fail, you have to have capital that embraces that psychologically as well. And so, that risk-taking capital —  which in America has largely existed in Silicon Valley, on the tech side —  on the entertainment side, that risk-taking capital largely exists in Los Angeles. So now Georgia has developed a risk-taking capital base for gaming and technology.

Asante: Right.

Ryan: But Georgia hasn't yet developed a risk-taking capital base in an entertainment. So that's where these parallel worlds diverge. But I think, as they start to come back together, one of the things that might be interesting is that it might be the tech money and the gaming money that becomes the first money to really fund entertainment activity in the state.

Asante: I think that's already happening.

Ryan: Tell me.

Asante: Well, again, when you talk about these independent companies —  you're right. It follows a tech scene. Usually, you get one kind of big exit, right? And the cool thing is, “Hey; now let's reinvest. Let's reinvest.” So, the gaming, I will tell you —  I mean, the game companies don't like it —  but talent is just picking off each other.

Ryan: Yeah, they cannibalize each other.

Asante: We love it. The state loves that.

Ryan: Why does the state love that?

Asante: Because that's showing that we're building the ecosystem here now, man. Because again, when you recruit an employee here, and it doesn't work out —  ten years ago, he's heading back to wherever he came from. But the other thing —  again, these guys; these are families, man. Everybody thinks gaming is kids. These are families. So, for them to make a move like that, it's a big move.

Ryan: Well, some of these gaming entrepreneurs have now been doing this for decades.

Asante: Exactly. You're right.

Ryan: A lot of them are turning 50.

Asante: Exactly. Gray hairs and all. So yeah. I'm excited, man, because you are seeing that now. The reinvestment is starting to take place. Even I mentioned Chris Claus. Chris Claus built a program at Tech. Now he's focused more on the... sorry. The brain stuff, you know? I know I ain’t saying that right. But he has an incubator accelerator. He's got these students coming in. He's giving them a little seed capital. He obviously gets a percentage of the company.

Ryan: So he's running a little angel venture fund out of Georgia Tech.

Asante: There you go.

Ryan: That's cool. So, how does that work? Is Georgia Tech taking a piece of that upside, too?

Asante: Oh, I'm sure they do. Yeah. You know what's cool about that, too? They start them out as freshmen.

Ryan: In the program?

Asante: You're starting to see that. That's happening at Stanford. That's happening at MIT. They're starting these kids now... “Let's start them as freshmen.” And when you walk out, when you graduate, you're walking into these companies. So, that's what I'm saying. These kids aren't apt to leave as much as they were a few years ago now.

Ryan: Where are the best programs? Georgia Tech obviously has a great program. Who else in the state?

Asante: Good question. Man, they're all over. I can go from Savannah to Columbus to Macon. I can't say, because I don't want them mad at me, man. I’m gonna forget some, but that's okay. But the metro area —  I mean, even Kennesaw State now has programs Brand new animation; they're doing gaming. They’re building an arena. Georgia State’s building arena, all for the game program. AUC. Clark Atlanta. I'm literally talking to all of them now. They’ve got all that big money, of course.

So, again, our talent is... and the schools, they're doing an amazing job, too. Let me shout out to the colleges. They're just doing an amazing job, exposing these kids. And I think, again —  me and you have to find ways to keep them here. But it's going to be that investment, right? It's got to be, “How do we help these kids earlier?” That's going back to our early conversation about getting these high school kids involved. It’s when we can start exposing them to these types of opportunities —  and teaching them, because that's the other thing.

That's just access to... “What is a raise?” Something like that. I think that's what we’ve got to get these kids. Literally teaching them those things. Right? So, to answer your question, we're talent-rich. We're talent-rich here in Georgia.

Ryan: We are talent-rich. Imagine, for me, five years from now. Tell me a couple things that you would love to see in the state of Georgia five years from now.

Asante: Great question, man. Great question. We're going to be playing a lot together. That's what I want. As the industries converge —  as the new technology, as the 5G, 6G, 7G starts kicking in —  what we are putting in place for the next couple of years will help us leapfrog when that tech comes.

And that tech's not far away. Because again, literally —  with digital, it literally changes every few months. There’s always something. But the highway, the freeway, is about to become super-speed. Internet 2; Internet 3 stuff's already being talked about. I had a meeting this morning about that. So, pulse reduction and special effects —  and, as you talked about The Mandalorian —  the digital, because everything, in my opinion, is coming digital anyway. Well, not everything, but a lot of entertainment is going to start converging more in the digital space. Obviously, music —  streaming, and all of that stuff. Right?

That's where I would say, in the next five years, I would love to see us. That's why I want to really focus on the high schools. Because I do think, in the next five years, we're going to see the advancement on a scale faster than we've ever seen. That's where my head is, man.

Ryan: Where's Asante in five years?

Asante: Good question. Hanging with Ryan, man. Going back to L.A. and hanging out. Seeing Sylvester Stallone and all the stars, man. And all the beautiful ladies. He's got all these beautiful ladies coming up to the table: “Hey, Ryan!” I want to be with you, bro. That's my goal.

Ryan: Well, I mean, there's lots to do in five years.

Asante: Yeah. Let me ask you. Where are you gonna be in five years? What's that? Talk to me.

Ryan: Me? Well, I mean, five years from now, we will be the largest provider of third-party space in the English-speaking world. So I think that's exciting. Five years from now, we should have an entire production wing. So, an entertainment division.

Asante: Great. That's it. That’s awesome.

Ryan: There's a couple things that we're working on that I think COVID set us back, timing-wise. But my guess is, by mid-2021, I can focus some energy on raising the money necessary to start rolling out content.

Asante: Hey, talk about that. I saw the article talk about your COVID, because that plays as well. I was actually talking to your security guard. Like, “Hey, man; I think that's another advantage for us. If we can open, obviously, before LA.” So I love to hear it —  and I know you spent some money on it.

Ryan: Yeah. We installed a bipolar ionization air handling system throughout all our entire facility. And this bipolar ionization is released into the air —  completely healthy, harmless, whatever. But the bipolar ionization attacks viruses in the air and then makes the air cleaner;m antiviral. And so the air inside of our stages is cleaner, virus-wise, than the air outside.

Now, outside air is moving, and it makes it very difficult for a virus to get into the lungs. But in these enclosed spaces, air is directed, oftentimes, by the air handling systems. And so if you don't have good quality air handling systems, that's why you see people getting coronavirus in restaurants. It's not because of the tight space of the restaurant as much as it is about the airflow of the restaurant.

And so, what this does is, it takes our enclosed spaces and makes that air antiviral in and of itself, which then hopefully makes everybody feel a lot more comfortable about being in those enclosed spaces for long periods of time. Of course, with masks on, and with social distancing, and all the other protocols that the Producers Guild has developed in conjunction with the Directors Guild and Screen Actors Guild and IATSE and the Teamsters. All of these unions have weighed in on what protocols are going to be. And so they have very developed, thoughtful protocols that are going to be in addition to the fact that they're going to be working in environments where the air quality is very high.

All of that has been provided by a company called CruSafe. These technologies have been around, but they've largely been in hospitals. And this pandemic has brought to the fore, in our collective consciousness, the notions of what's antiviral —  right? None of us; well, not none of us, but very few of us were using hand sanitizer all the time, thinking that we were, keeping ourselves healthy. Very few of us were worried about door handles; whether or not they were copper. And very few of us were worried about what kind of air quality we were breathing wherever we were sitting.

So, it's a it's a different world in that regard. There's an entire industry explosion happening inside of antiviral life. And we're kind of seeing some of that from the inside out as it relates to the entertainment industry.

Asante: Oh, that's great. Share your best practices with me. This is something I think we need to obviously get behind a little bit more. This is growing and learning, and being able to share these types of stuff. Again, if there's a way that we can help with that, that'd be great.

Ryan: Yeah. Some of those best practices for us —  we have to work so closely with all the unions, particularly the Producers Guild, because the producers are leading all of this. The producers are really the logistics and business operators of this business. We lean on them a lot to try to find out what they need, and what they need from us; how we can help the protocols that they need, but not necessarily imposing protocols on them, because they're already imposing so many protocols on themselves.

But what I would say is that, this disease —  the more we know about it, the less complicated it really becomes. We just need to make sure that droplets from my lungs don't end up in your lungs. We do that with masks, and we do that with distance, and we do that with air handling. Just those three things have a giant effect —  whether or not you're infected; whether or not you are asymptomatic. If we just do those things, the virus doesn't spread.

So, the productions are doing things like taking people's temperatures. They are testing for the virus. Our staff is being tested for the virus in conjunction with what the Producers Guild needs. But really, there are some fundamental aspects that we didn't know at the beginning of all this that we know today. That allows us, I think, to fight a lot more effectively against the virus.

Asante: I want to give you some kudos, man —  for leading. And, again, I only just read the articles. We haven’t had the chance to meet, man. But I've been excited about that. And, obviously, those conversations come up with what I'm doing, too. Again, we're a crossbreed.

Going back to your question about five years, I would love to see more of that. I would love to see you talking to the game developers. And I’d like them talking to the film guys and the music guys. Because even e-sports —  music and esports, man; they play. And that's actually a big advantage for us. We had this event, DreamHack, and we had some of the hip hop artists. Please don't get mad if you are a nerd out there —  but these nerds, dude?

Ryan: They were dying. They were loving it.

Asante: My God, they know all the words. And I'm like, “Wait a minute, man. No, these guys are cool. I'll be talking to the cool nerds.” Let's go with that.

Ryan: So, don't forget that the suburban nerds are what made all the hip hop guys rich.

Asante: Exactly. So, I think that's our advantage, right? I’d love to see us all hanging together —  like in L.A. That's happening already. We're next. Or Canada, or whatever. But I would love to see that happen.

Ryan: Well, Asante, we're out of time. But thank you so much for being here. We'll do it again. I really appreciate you taking the time. And all the best for everything in the future.

Asante: Thanks, man. You too. And, again, if you see me waiting outside again in a restaurant, please let me in.

Ryan: You're always welcome with me. Hey, if anybody wants to get ahold of you, do you have social media? Anything that they can reach?

Asante: I do. LinkedIn is good. Just Asante Bradford. You'll find me. And then, email —  asantebradford@georgia.org, and then the Georgia.org website. Hey —  shout out to all of my partners. Alan Fox is our creative industry guy; new guy. And he's been killing it with me. My communications team. You guys, thank you so much. And my manager. I can just shout out people forever, man. So anyway, thank you for letting me share what Asante does on a daily basis.

Ryan: Well, we appreciate you being here. And thanks for being so open.

Asante: Right, buddy.

Ryan: I'm Ryan Millsap. Thank you for listening to the Blackhall Studios Podcast.

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Ryan: Putting an exclamation point on the end of each podcast, I share inspirational sayings that I write on Instagram. “There is not one good reason to not let it go. There is not one good reason for worry. There is eternal reason to be present now.”

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Thanks for listening to the Blackhall Studios Podcast with Ryan Millsap. We want to hear from you! Find us on SoundCloud, iTunes or Spotify, and follow us on Instagram at @Ryan.Millsap.