Jay Jackson Is On the RYSE With the RYSE Creative Village - with Ryan Millsap

Ryan Millsap, Chairman & CEO of Atlanta-based Blackhall Studios, is one of today’s top entertainment executives! With a vision for Blackhall that’s ambitious, energizing, and boundless, Millsap is blazing a trail through the heart of the South – and setting his sights on the future of entertainment. Listen and learn as Ryan Millsap journeys through the myriad industries, people, and landscapes that traverse the complex and dynamic world of film production.

***

Ryan: I'm Ryan Millsap, CEO of Blackhall Studios in Atlanta, and this is the Blackhall Studios Podcast. Why does a busy Hollywood studio do a podcast, you might ask? Blackhall is the home of great movies like Jumanji: The Next Level and fan-favorite series like HBO's Lovecraft Country. But for me, hosting a podcast is an amazing way to meet people and to connect to the community. I learn from each interview and from each person. My roots are actually in America's heartland. My mother's from Nebraska. My father's from Missouri. And though some folks might think I've ‘gone Hollywood,’ I'm now just an Atlanta boy who loves to meet new and interesting people. And yes, some of them will just happen to be famous Hollywood types.

I'm a dad; a businessman. I live on a farm out in Social Circle, and I love the peace and quiet there. But I also love to learn about the philosophy of human nature. So why a podcast? That's why. Thank you for joining me on this journey. I appreciate you.

Today on the podcast, I'm hosting a real visionary. Jay Jackson, founder of RYSE Creative Village, is an award-winning entrepreneur. We seem to host a lot of those on the show. Jackson's ambition for specifically nurturing minority talent in and around Atlanta has led him to his latest project: RYSE Creative Village, which we will absolutely talk about, as well as his support for technical colleges of Georgia, and what that means to the future of young creative minds in the state.

Jay Jackson is known for creating his own path. He's a motivational speaker with tried-and-true leadership skills. Listen up; pay attention – because Jay has a lot to say.

***

Ryan: Hi, this is Ryan Millsap. Welcome to the Blackhall Studios Podcast. Today we have Jay Jackson, CEO of RYSE Interactive. Jay, welcome to the show.

Jay: Man, I'm happy to be here, Ryan. Thank you for having me.

Ryan: It's our pleasure. So, we were talking beforehand, and you were telling me about Orlando. You have some roots there. Tell us a little bit about your growing up and how you ended up in Orlando. Did you grow up in Orlando?

Jay: Yes. I actually was born and raised in Orlando, so I was a native – and it's not very many natives in Orlando.

Ryan: That's true.

Jay: It’s a transient place where people really relocate to after retiring, and things like that.

Ryan: That's right. What brought you to Atlanta?

Jay: I'm one of those cliche stories. I came from kind of the underserved background – but got into entrepreneurship, did well for myself, started my own real estate company, and did very well in real estate prior to the crash of 2006-2007 – which some of us don't like to remember. But after real estate – because of the obstacles that I overcame growing up and the success that I had – I would be asked to speak to youth groups about entrepreneurship and overcoming obstacles and things like that.

And so, as I would speak to these youth groups, they would come up to me afterwards, and they said, “Man, we’re just so inspired.” I would say, “What are you talking about? There's a lot of people out here doing great things.” And they’d say, “Well, we don't see people that look like us doing these things. We see athletes and entertainers.” And I said, “You've got to be kidding me. There's so many people doing great things.”

And so, I started from that point. I started this company, RYSE, which stands for ‘Recognizing the Young, Successful and Empowered.’ We started off as a media company. We had a magazine – and we did a print magazine. This was 2011. Print was obviously going out of date, but we wanted people to take us seriously. And in that, we told the stories of dynamic people doing great things. Upwardly mobile entrepreneurs; upwardly mobile executives that were kind of that middle management. And from there, we knew that we wanted to scale this, and scale it nationally.

Orlando is a great place to raise kids. ‘Mickey Mouse Town,’ as we know. But it was just not a market that was going to catapult us; it’s not a major market like that. And so, we were looking for where we could move the company to. We went to New York for a little while. New York is a great place. I love the mindset; very progressive. But it was just so massive of a market. And so we came here to Atlanta, and I fell in love. I call it the New York of the South, because you have that progressiveness here. But you also have, kind of, that southern hospitality; that charm to it. And so, I love it here.

Ryan: It's a magical place.

Jay: Yes, it is.

Ryan: What were some of the other things – like, when you think about the detail of coming to Atlanta for the first time and feeling, like, “God, this is better than living in New York?”

Jay: What I really liked about it – I mean, as an African-American myself – I saw that there was a lot of opportunity here. I did like that about it. And then, one of the things that really got me was, when I got here, I saw how there was so much emphasis on media; so much emphasis on entertainment from the state level. Anytime you have an industry where you have the government involved in making sure that this industry thrives...

I said, “Okay, well, this is a great place for us.” And it made me even evolve that vision that I had, where we were a media company trying to figure out, ultimately, what we were going to grow to – this project that we're working on right now with RYSE Creative Village. And I'll share with you: as a media company, we started off telling these dynamic stories. But what wound up happening, and how we grew, was that we would do these events every time we released a magazine. The magazine, for us, was a loss leader. We would put the print magazine out for free.

But really, where we generated a lot of our revenue was from working with companies like Pepsi, State Farm, and BB&T Bank. These companies wanted to get in front of these upwardly mobile minority young professionals. And they said, “We can find them in the entry level. But when it comes to that middle management, we struggle with that.” So they became kind of our client. We had a customer in the community that we were serving, and corporations became our client. We began creating media and marketing campaigns for them that authentically targeted this demographic.

And so, when I moved here, that was another thing I liked about here – because you had a significant amount of corporate headquarters here. I mean, Coca-Cola; UPS. You name it, it’s here. Delta. That allowed us to get to the key decision-makers; whereas, where we were at before, we were working with regional people. But here, you were able to connect with these key decision makers. And that helped us scale significantly.

Ryan: Well, it's a fantastic place to have as a home, logistically. Certainly – I think, corporately, as you were mentioning – it's hard to beat Atlanta in that regard. What is it? Take me on the inside of the African-American dialogue about Atlanta. What do... the black conversation in Detroit, New York, Los Angeles – what are they saying about Atlanta?

Jay: Well, I'll tell you what I hear quite a bit. It’s just that there are a significant amount of opportunities to be able to scale, and be able to do business with companies. They were much more open. That was the first challenge that I would deal with in Orlando. When we would work with a company, I would hear a number of times, being in Central Florida, that “we have a budget for this demographic, but this place where you're at is ‘not black enough.’” And I would hear that constantly.

So, when you look at a market like Atlanta, it had the numbers. The socioeconomic status was significantly higher than some of these other markets. So you're dealing with a niche demographic that had the buying power, spending power, that they really bought into it. So it was it was a place from that perspective that was really appealing.

So that's one of the things that we learned with moving here, and moving the company here. And I saw it for myself. I would see so many successful, minority-led companies that were just able to do business with these corporations and get real opportunities to get their foot in the door. That's significant in itself.

Ryan: Well, my experience in Atlanta is that it's a very integrated community. I mean, it's black, white; and there's other minorities. But really, it's a black and white town. You have black and white people working together in all walks of life; all over the place. I mean, I don't want to go so far as to say it's Doctor King's dream realized – but in many ways, Atlanta is on the cutting edge of that dream continuing to evolve.

Jay: I agree.

Ryan: And I watch it all the time. I think, “wow, this is amazing.” Like when I think back... I grew up in Scottsdale, Arizona, and I can promise you there's not a big African-American population in Scottsdale. I had black friends growing up, but they were black friends who were living in a white world. Atlanta is a place where there are all worlds, right? There's lots of times I walk out, and I'm like, “I'm a white guy living in a black world.”

Jay: The culture here – that was another thing to your point, absolutely. The culture here – that was one of the things that grabbed me when I got here. And as a person who is African American, I would see so much history, with the civil rights movement and things like that. All of those things just brought that to the forefront. And that was one of the things that gives you a sense of pride in who you are.

That was something that, obviously, in Orlando... I love it. Again, it’s a great place. But it's more touristy. Right? You're going to have things that appeal to people that are tourists, and people that are visiting. And so, that was one of the things that I liked here. You have it all. You have different cultures all throughout the city. I mean, you go to Buckhead; it's a certain culture. You go to just outside the Sandy Springs area; and things like that. That's one of the things I loved about it; that mix of the culture.

Ryan: It's very unique. And I try to explain to friends of mine, even in L.A. Everybody in L.A. wants to think they're so progressive. They want to think they're so integrated in their life. They want to think that they have friends of every color. And then you start to break down the socioeconomic, and you realize LA is really kind of ‘haves, have nots,’ right? When it comes to the African-American community – they live in South Central. And then, a lot of life in L.A. that's business life takes place up in Beverly Hills, and across to downtown L.A., all the way over to Santa Monica. And the African-Americans who go live life up there are, oftentimes, the ‘elite.’

Jay: Yeah.

Ryan: And so – a lot of my friends who think that they have all these African-American friends? I'm like, “Well, you have an African-American friend who runs CAA, or whatever. And you know LeBron James.” That's not the world that Atlanta is. Atlanta has integration at every level of society.

Jay: I wholeheartedly agree.

Ryan: One of the things that was interesting to me is, the first time I was in Georgia, I was driving down the freeway, and I looked over and I saw 15 African-American guys on Harleys. And I thought, in California, you might see a group like that that were all dentists. White dentists cruising Highway 1 up to Napa or something. But you come to Georgia, and everything you imagine about every level of American life is happening inside of an African-American community.

And inside the African-American community here, it's all of America. There's everybody from the mayor of the city, to judges, to hedge fund managers, to venture capitalists, to technology entrepreneurs – all the way down to all of the kind of crime-ridden stuff that we deal with in white communities; black communities; everywhere. But you get the entire social...

Jay: Yeah, the entire scope.

Ryan: The entire scope, which I think is very different than Los Angeles or New York or Chicago – where you're not seeing that sort of cultural integration.

Jay: I wholeheartedly agree with you. That's one of the things that, again, makes it so unique. And that's what allowed us to say, or what made us say, “Okay, this is the place where we're going to place our roots.” It's funny. With the project, RYSE Creative Village, that we're working on, I was talking with, a mentor of mine who's a real estate developer. He's out of Orlando. He said, “Man, Jay, if you were in Orlando, you would never be able to do it. God, it would be so difficult for you to pull this thing off.” But he was just surprised that we had purchased this – a formerly Atlanta Public School property, and where we were located, and the project that we were working on.

Ryan: Tell us. Tell us about it – because, I mean, this is a very Atlanta kind of opportunity.

Jay: Absolutely. So, as I share with you, we've been in the media marketing space for a number of years. We started the company back in 2011. And, as we moved here, and we began working with a lot of freelance creatives... We were working with these companies that I mentioned. Georgia Power is another client of ours. I worked with these freelancers. And I said, “Hey, man, this market is booming here with the film and entertainment industry, right? Are you all connected? I know you all are working on some of these projects that are here.”

One of the things about creatives is that they're very creative, but they don't always understand business. Right? I mean, we know this, in this world. They said, “Well, we don't know how to get connected to opportunities like that.” So I'm like, “What are you talking about?” Again – an entrepreneur is always looking for a problem, right? When we hear something, we say, “Oh, that's a problem? Okay. That's an opportunity.” And so, from there, I said, “We need to create something; create a vehicle that we can collectively bring a lot of these creatives together; provide them with, maybe, some tools, development resources – but help them get connected to opportunities.”

Really, I began looking at the tech ecosystem. I don't believe in reinventing the wheel. Sometimes you just look at other things in other industries, and you can apply those same models. When I looked at the tech industry here – one of the things about the tech industry that's very obvious is that they don't want you to leave. They don't want that talent to leave. If you graduate from Georgia Tech, they want you to stay here. They're trying to create an ecosystem for you. So, if you're looking at starting your own tech company, they have resources for you there. If you're looking at getting hired onto a tech company, they have resources there. And so they really have resources for you – even capital and everything. They create this ecosystem. They don't want you to go to Silicon Valley. They want you to stay right here.

And so, I said, “If we look at that model, what can we do in the grand scheme of things?” I looked at places like Atlanta Tech Village, and I really have to say that's kind of the model that we looked at: having this building that has this membership opportunity; co-working opportunity, where they're curating, programming, and things like that. It has space for events. And of course, we’d look at production. And so, that's where we began to build out this concept.

We stumbled across this former Atlanta Public School property after we lost 2 or 3 other properties that we were trying to go after. And it worked out perfect, because this building had been vacant for about 16 years – sitting dormant. A 30,000 square-foot building, sitting on four acres of land. And it sat right within an area where we saw development going all around in southwest Atlanta.

Ryan: Where is it? Like, what cross-streets?

Jay: So, if you're familiar with Lee Street – Lee and Avon and Hamilton Road. Those are some of the cross-streets. If you're familiar with Lee and White, Lee and White is over there. The Met. Pittsburgh Yards. All of this is happening in this area. So we knew that this was an area that is really becoming this creative corridor. So it just was perfect; it lined up perfect.

We started on the process of purchasing the building, which was a two-and-a-half-year process, working with Atlanta Public Schools. It was not an easy process, because they're not real estate. They don't just sell real estate. They just happened to be sitting on all of these properties that had been closed.

So, when you think about RYSE Creative Village, you think about this membership facility that has production spaces for creatives. You have smaller soundstages; nothing like what we're looking at right now. But for up-and-coming creatives, they can create content. Podcasting studios; virtual reality gaming studios; recording studios. Anybody that's in that creative realm – film, music, digital media, gaming – anybody that falls in that creative realm, you can be a member here. Have an affordable membership, but have access to these tools; to these resources.

And I'm thankful, because now we're starting to get partnerships – strategic partnerships – with companies. A couple streaming companies that we're talking to that see that we’ll be curating all of this talent – as we like to say, curating and cultivating creativity. As I share with them, I'm like, “Listen. We're going to be cultivating this talent. This is going to be the next Tyler Perry. These are going to be the next Ava DuVernays.”

And the thing about it – what I love – is this. We've always... in media, you have to focus on niche, right? That how you find your lane and get your voice. But with this? This is creatives as a whole. This isn't African-American. This is, if you like to create, this is the place for you.

Ryan: Are you feeling a little bit like Professor Xavier? Are you recruiting an army of mutants?

Jay: I love it. I’ve never heard that in that analogy, but it is so apropos.

Ryan: You’re trying to gather people of talent, and then help focus their energy; teach them how to really utilize their skills. And then set them free to go do good in the world.

Jay: Absolutely. And from our standpoint, we understand business. So we're building the relationships. We can make the introductions and help them with everything, all the way down from technical skills to soft skills. I mean, some people – some creatives – you even have to educate them on how you interact with people. So, it’s all the way down to soft skills.

Within the building, obviously, you have tenants that will be in the building. And I'm thankful, because one of the tenants that we’re working with right now is a technical college that I actually sit on the advisory board for – Atlanta Technical College, which is eight minutes away from there.

Ryan: Very close.

Jay: They have this design and media production program, where they're teaching film; they're teaching photography; they're teaching graphic design. When I joined the board, I said, “Well, I want to see the space that the students are working out of.” And they took me to this classroom that was just, basically, a classroom. Nothing against Atlanta Technical College. But I said, “How the students learning with real world equipment if they're working in this classroom?”

Again, when you're dealing with some of these colleges, budgets become an issue. So I said, “We need to work on this.” And I'm thankful, because that's one of the tenants that are looking at coming in and being a strategic partner. And now the students will have access to equipment. They will have access to a creative environment, and they will actually have access to real productions – smaller scale productions, but real productions that can give them that real-world experience. So, they're entering the world where they're able to compete and go after jobs that are happening right here at Blackhall Studios.

Ryan: So, does this feel like a kind of a dual venture for you – doing well by doing good?

Jay: Absolutely. And one of the things we've always been rooted in is having a positive social impact. We're a for-profit entity, but it's always been about having some type of social impact. And the interesting thing about this school – the property itself – is that it sits within a community. It’s one of these schools that was built within a community.

When I first started working through the purchase process – the first time I went to the property – I was like, “I love this property. All of this acreage that we're sitting on. But it sits right within a community. That's a bit weird.” But then, as I started going through the process... Atlanta Public Schools, they require you to have support from the NPU that that you're within before they even agreed to sell it to you. And so I started working really close with the NPU; started working close with the community association, and the neighbors. And we began building this great relationship.

They've been living next to this property has been vacant for 16 years. So they were so happy to have somebody coming in that's building something that they could even be a part of. It's just been phenomenal, because even beyond what I had imagined, we saw ourselves. Now I tell the community all the time: “Listen, we're not a community center, but we will be a community resource.” And, as a result, we've been working together as we develop the plan for what happens within the building – but also what happens outside of the building, and around that area. It's just been a phenomenal process, going hand in hand. They've been super supportive of everything, which we know is huge.

Ryan: Well, they should be supportive. So I'm glad to hear that. I mean, you don't always get government support for good things; good ideas. People come at things from all different angles. Sometimes you can't get community buy-in. But in this case, it sounds like a fantastic idea. I'm glad to see the community supporting you. I’ve actually got a two-part question for you.

Jay: Okay.

Ryan: So, I want you to reflect on your own psychology, and help me see a path as to... where did this entrepreneurial spirit come from? Like, how do you trace that in your own soul? And then, on the other side, where did this pastoral spirit come from? You've got this kind of dual... You've got this entrepreneurial, and you've got this pastoral, and those came from somewhere. Maybe you were born with them; maybe you've had them your whole life. But walk me through where you imagine, as you think about your own story, where those things come into play.

Jay: That's a great question. I get that entrepreneurial spirit from my father. He had this entrepreneurial spirit about him. He started a restaurant; started a number of different things – but could never really access that capital, which is a challenge, a lot of times, for minority-owned businesses. They didn't have the internet back in the day, where you could connect with people online, and things like that. I just remember him starting these ventures – but he just didn't have the capital to begin to scale. And ultimately, he had to get a regular job, and just let those dreams die. So, for me, I think that's where I really get that entrepreneurial spirit.

And then, the second thing about it is, every venture that I've had – from when I got into real estate sales and opened up my brokerage – every venture that I've had has always been trying to solve a problem that I saw existed and frustrated me. It was always something that dealt with serving the community. I'm very service-oriented, as you mentioned. It’s always been about “How do we combine purpose with profit?” And now, even with this facility, we say “Purpose, profit, planet,” because we're doing a lot of green initiatives in there. All of that is in the same place: purpose, profit, people, planet. And that's how we look at things.

I don't know where the service part came from; it’s just kind of innately in me. But the entrepreneurial spirit – I do believe that came from my father, because I know my mom worked on a job for 35 years. She played it safe, but he was the risk taker. So, for me, it's also about that baton. When I look at him, I said, “Okay, he couldn't cross that finish line. But let me take that baton.” And even with this project, I'm so proud. Everything that we've accomplished in the past, I'm thankful for. But this project, I'm super excited, because they live in Florida still, and they haven't been up to see the property yet. I can't wait for them to come, so that he can see that, “Hey, I have that baton, and I'm ready to carry it across the finish line.”

And then, I will say, the last component of that is, I'm a father of two children – a son and a daughter. My son is a creative. He goes to Full Sail down in Orlando. So, I'm trying to get him up here when he gets done with that. And my daughter – she's more analytical than he is, but she loves to write; has always written. So, when I think about this facility, I think about people like them, and really creating a path for even them to get connected to opportunities. I just think about people like that. It's always about more than me. It's bigger than me. It's about serving.

Ryan: I love that element. I think there's always, in entrepreneurship, the elements that are the beautiful side. I think of those as the creative and the imaginative. People say to me, “Why are you an entrepreneur?” And I say, “I want to be able to wake up in the morning and turn my imagination on. I want to be able to wake up in the morning and exercise creativity.” Right? Those are drivers. Now, on the negative side, I'm an entrepreneur because I'm unemployable.

Jay: Yes. Absolutely.

Ryan: I ask really hard questions. I'm not willing to deal with the answers. I'm not willing to implement answers that I don't think make sense. And that makes for a terrible employee, in many ways. I realized my massive authority issues drove me into entrepreneurship. So, I hear you saying the pastoral side, the service side, is the ‘beautiful’ side of what drives you in entrepreneurship. Tell me about some of the things that you think are the weaknesses in you that force you into entrepreneurship.

Jay: You are 100% correct. I remember when the real estate market crashed, and I had a brokerage. I had a team of about 25 agents. And everybody had to get out of the business. This was the market crash. I remember, in my office I had a TV on CNBC – because I keep up with the stock market – and CNN. I was always keeping up with news, and then the stock market. I remember Ali Velshi was the financial analyst at the time. The markets were crashed, and we had closings that were on the on the books that just totally got wiped out. And I wound up saying, “Okay, well, I have to get a job at this point. I have to do something to keep money flowing.”

I wound up getting a job working in timeshares. I remember them telling me... now, keep in mind. I wake up without an alarm clock at 5:30; 5:30, 6:00, easily, with no alarm clock at all. And I remember them telling me, “Well, you have to be at work at 7 a.m.,” right? And I'm saying to myself, “It would be so hard for me to just wake up and get there, and I would be dragging.” This is what I knew. I said, “I gotta figure something else out.”

I owned a couple other small businesses. One of them was a salon. It was something that I had invested in, kind of passively. But my office was in the same building. We had this 5000 square-foot building, and my real estate office was in the same building. And so, one day, I woke up coughing and sick. I called out from the timeshare job, and I went into my office. One of the young ladies who worked in the salon area of the day spa – she said, “Jay, what are you doing here?” She knew I had a job. And so she said, “What are you doing here?” I said, “Well, I'm sick.” And she said, “If you're sick, then why are you here?” I was like, “I don't know; I just have to be here. Right? I just feel like I have to be.”

That's when I wound up quitting. I said, “I will figure this thing out,” because I knew then, at that point, I have to be in control of my own destiny. As you mentioned, when you look at the politics of working a job... When I talk to friends who deal with the political side of working a job... I mean, I can't handle it. I can't even fathom it.

Ryan: It's better to fire yourself than wait around to get fired.

Jay: And, going back to the pastoral side of things, you mentioned something. I listened to a couple interviews that you did before this, because I love your background, and everything. You talk about, often, the jobs within this industry – within this film production. These are jobs that make people feel good. Right? And it is so true. These people love to create, and to use their creativity. And it’s not always valued in the corporate environment. So, this world respects that. The people that I always say ‘add color’ to the world that would otherwise be black and white.

Just think – when you hop in the car and turn on the radio, somebody came up with the song; wrote the lyrics. Somebody came up with the music that goes along with it. And every time you turn on the TV and watch something, that’s something that somebody imagined in their head, and they brought it to life. I wanted to be a part of helping others create that.

Ryan: One of the things that we deal with at Blackhall is... we're in southwest DeKalb County. Not a lot of people in this part of town have ever been exposed to the entertainment industry. And sometimes, the politicians will say to me things like, “How many people in this neighborhood are you going to employ?” And I'll say, “Well, over time, hopefully a lot.” But it's over time.

I don't know what your exposure was when you were in Orlando as a child. When I was growing up in Scottsdale, Arizona, we lived in a perfectly nice middle-class neighborhood. But the richest people I knew were doctors – and maybe there was an occasional lawyer. Or maybe there's a dentist who lived in a big house on the end of the cul de sac, or this kind of stuff. But I didn't know investment bankers. I didn't know how money worked, and I didn't know anything about venture capital. I certainly didn't know any technology entrepreneurs.

I didn't know anybody in entertainment. I would have never imagined, when I was a child, that being a director or producer was a career option that I could embark upon. I just didn't know any of those people. And so, I think our presence in this neighborhood is like an opportunity beacon, where kids can say, “What do they do down there?”

We're really involved with a project at McNair High School that is that combines the DeKalb County Schools, the Georgia Film Academy, and Blackhall Studios in turning a section of McNair High School that's empty right now into a film and television and gaming kind of Mecca. Not like what you're doing – which is really for professionals. This is for high school kids. And really, it’s a stepping stone to then go actually do it. They graduate into what your world is, where people are actually making money. This is intended just to start to give people exposure.

Jay: Exposure is key. And, when you talk about being in areas like this, I think that was one of the challenges that I faced growing up – because I was never exposed. I was exposed to limited things. And I remember... Quick story. I wound up getting this job working for Airborne Express. I was this delivery driver. And I remember when I got hired, I said, “Hey, put me in the west side of town,” which was where I grew up, in kind of the underserved area. I was like, “This is where I'm comfortable. I know this area like the back of my hand. I know the back streets, everything, to make sure my job is easy.”

They put me on the east side of town, which was kind of the more affluent area. And I said, “I don't know anything about this.” I remember being so afraid of just being in this unknown environment. And so, for the first two weeks on that job, I remember that I had this bad attitude because they didn't give me what I want, and that was my comfort zone. And they put me out of my comfort zone.

After working on this route for two weeks, I pulled up at this house one day. I had this bad attitude. But I looked up at the house – and it's probably the first time I actually looked at the house. I would look for the address, and leave the package at the front door. But this time I looked up the stairs, and I said, “Wow, this is the biggest house I have ever seen up close in my life.” It probably was a 3-4000 square foot house, you know? But when you haven't seen anything like that... I said, “I have to know what they do. I have to know what they do.”

I remember going up to the front door. And usually, delivery drivers – they leave the package, and they run off before you get to the door. But this particular day, I stood there. I rang the doorbell. I stood there with that package in my hand, and the gentleman answered the door. It was probably 1:00 there, in the daytime. And he was in shorts and a t-shirt. I remember shaking. I'm 18, 19 years old. I said, “I'm your delivery driver. My name is Jay. Hopefully this doesn't offend you, but I just have to know – what do you do for a living?”

Ryan: At your home in your shorts and t-shirt at 1:00, accepting my delivery. I want this job.

Jay: He said, “I run a business from my home.” And I said, “You run a business from your home?” That was totally foreign to me. So I got a little more confidence at that point. I said, “So, you're trying to tell me you don't wake up every day dreading a job that you hate, fighting traffic that you hate, to work with people that you hate, doing something that you hate doing – which is what I've always seen everybody else in my family do?”

He said, “No, I love what I do.” And he brought me in his house that day and showed me a computer. He ran an IT company, but he did a lot of it from his home. He actually had an office. And that day right there – I think that was the day the entrepreneurial seed got planted. I said, “I don't know what I will do, what it will be, but one day I'm going to have my own business.” And that was where the seed really got planted.

Ryan: I'm guessing that guy was a white suburbanite.

Jay: Yes.

Ryan: And so, this is a perfect example. You said earlier in the program, “I didn't get to see people that look like me.” Sometimes you just need to see people doing it.

Jay: Exactly, exactly.

Ryan: Right. So here, you see this guy, and you say, “How did you get this big house, and how are you home at 1:00? And how do you like what you do?” He tells you one thing for ten minutes. And that ten-minute conversation and experience might have launched all your entrepreneurial endeavor. Because it clicked something inside of you that went from saying, “How do I endure this?” to “How do I change it?”

Jay: Yes. Absolutely. And I'll tell you what it also did now – it changed my attitude. I had an attitude shift. Like I said, the first two weeks on that job, I had this poor attitude. So I wasn't open to anything. But once that happened, that changed my attitude. That changed my whole attitude, and my whole outlook.

I began going to the leadership at this particular delivery company. And I said, “Hey, put me in other routes that I'm not familiar with. Put me in other areas.” I began delivering to Lockheed Martin, and I began delivering to UCF. And I wanted to go deliver to these places – because now I'm walking around. Now I'm just not the delivery driver hustling to get the packages. Now I’m sightseeing as I'm doing it. It opened me to so many more opportunities that I didn't know existed. And, from there, it just spiraled.

Every opportunity that I took – when I get into something, I want to understand everything about it. And so, from there, when I got into entrepreneurship, I wanted to understand everything about what I was doing. It exposed me to new people, and more people that just helped me grow and grow.

Ryan: What you just said triggered a creative idea in my mind – which was a book that you could write for kids. Maybe junior highers, even. A book written from the perspective of a delivery guy, and all the places he goes and gets to see, and what he's learning as he goes. All these vignettes about different parts of society, and all the different careers, and then walking away and thinking to himself about all the things that are good or bad or whatever – and starting to formulate all this perspective on all the options that are available in life that could only come if you go and see them.

Jay: Yeah, absolutely. You're 100% correct. And as you get connected – I mean, he opened my eyes to something else that planted the seed. And I started my real estate company shortly after that. Well, I didn't start it. I got into real estate shortly after that, and I got exposed to the people that I was working with in the real estate industry. Their mindset was on a different level as well.

These were people that were talking about rental property, and things like that. And now I'm being exposed to investing, and things like that. So it just opened the door, and created all these other opportunities that connected me with different people on a different level. Not that anybody's better than me – but you're just starting to connect with different people on a different level. Even with this, and the project that we're working on now – when we needed to raise the capital for this project. Obviously, now, I'm dealing with the investment world, and things like that, and understanding new market tax credits and things like that. And now I talk about it like I'm a pro, right?

Ryan: Well, and what it makes me think about as I hear you talk is this particular human virtue that is so incredibly dangerous and yet so incredibly powerful – and that's curiosity. You have a lot of curiosity. Did you always indulge that?

Jay: Yes, I did – and I have to rein it in at times. You have to rein it in at times, because you can't get to the point where you're chasing the shiny object. Right?

Ryan: Well, they say it killed the cat.

Jay: Yeah. And so, I kind of focus on... What I learned to do is, I focus on what I know I'm good at, and what my strengths allow me to leverage. And then I pull in people who are experts in other areas. So now I've learned to utilize people that are experts at what they do, and they help me kind of curb that curiosity. So, I still am curious, but now I partner with people that can help to address some of those things.

Ryan: And fill in the gaps.

Jay: Yes, exactly.

Ryan: Well, I think you only have so much time in the day, and Professor Xavier can't do everything.

Jay: Never. I certainly try. I hate it, because sometimes I get so engulfed in things, and because I want it to be impactful. It's not just about the money, of course. We want to profit in everything that we're doing, so that you can be sustainable and scale. But you definitely have to make sure that you control that, because it can get out of hand.

Ryan: Let's talk a little bit about capital. I think I've mentioned this before on a podcast, but when I was young and I had all these ideas and I didn't have money, I came up with this phrase that I would tell people. I'd say “Vision without capital is misery.”

Jay: Yes, exactly.

Ryan: So, you're seeing that, probably – not just in your own entrepreneurial life, but in the lives of all these other people that you're starting to help try to understand how to grow companies; grow opportunities. Let's talk a little bit about the capital markets – inside of, particularly, the African-American creative world, and maybe even the African-American technology world. Those are areas where I don't know a lot about the capital side. Where are you seeing capital flow into those areas in entrepreneurial endeavor?

Jay: I’ll tell you – capital still is a significant challenge, even for companies that are talking about, “Hey, we're investing; or we're allocating $100 million for racial equality,” and things like that. I'm always saying, “Well, racial equality is economics, right? So you need to be looking at entrepreneurs.” They're the ones that create jobs, and it begins to trickle down. So, if you really want to address that, then you want to invest in people who are building and creating and creating these jobs.

And it's still a challenge. I mean, even with this process – with us, we have this property. I acquired the property, and we're talking about a property that had $1 million worth of equity in it coming in the gate, based on what I bought it from – from Atlanta Public Schools. So you have $1 million worth of equity in a property. Equity is there. And then, as part of the capital stack, because of where it's located, we were able to get an allocation of new market tax credits.

For the listeners – they may or may not know what new market tax credits are. I t's a tax incentive that brings cash into the into the deal – about 25% of the overall project cost. And this came into the deal. So, now I’ve got equity. I’ve got new market tax credits, some low interest debt. We identified a community development lender that brought debt. And so, then, the last piece of the capital stack was the equity. Now we need to bring in some equity partners. And that was probably the greatest challenge.

Now, here you have a deal that 75% of the capital is at the table. Right? You’ve got a project that makes sense. We've got strategic partners. And then, that last piece – that 25% of equity – that was such a challenge. And there’s still the piece that that we're trying to close the gap on. But that's just an example. Here's a deal where the deck is stacked in our favor. And just accessing that, and enduring that process...

If I'm being transparent here, I felt like we were being scrutinized, many times, even greater. It was like, “Can you pull this off?” I'm like, “Well, listen. We have an interest list of over 800 creatives that say they want in, or that they want to be a member of this place. We have strategic partnerships. And we've been in business for a number of years, and have done business with various different corporations. So we have a track record. I'm not new to entrepreneurship, and I've built out a great team.” But you still dealt with all of these people scrutinizing it. I get that you have to mitigate risk. But in these situations, it's like, “Okay. I know that you all did these other deals that were a whole lot more riskier than what we're doing. And we have a strategic plan.” So, that's the challenge that we still see exists. Again – if I'm being transparent.

Ryan: Transparency is the only way to find new solutions. Right? Transparency leads to what you started out this conversation with, which is identifying problems. You can only actually identify problems if everybody will be honest. Then, once you can identify it, you can come up with solutions. So, the conversation only progresses if everybody's transparent.

Jay: Absolutely. And even from a standpoint of... So, capital. There's a certain language that you have got to speak, right? There’s a language of money. And so, I think that there's two things that have to happen. The capital markets have to be much more open. And then, even from entrepreneurs like myself, I had to learn to speak a different language. I had to learn to understand and speak the language of money. But then, when that happens, and you can show, “Hey, here's how we get that return for you,” and we begin to scale? Then it has to open up. It has to free up at that point.

Ryan: What are you seeing? Again, this is more of an ecosystem question. So, if a young entrepreneur – let's say a young tech entrepreneur, because I know there's actually a pretty large African-American tech population of Atlanta. So, let's say I'm a young African-American tech entrepreneur. How many African-American-run venture capital firms can I go to and try to get money?

Jay: I'm not sure of the number, but I will say it's getting better, because you now have people out there like Joey Womack with Goodie Nation. He's someone. People like him are out here now, bridging the gaps. And now you have people like Joel Burke, who is with Google Startups. You have people that have now made it. And now they're in these companies, and in these venture funds, or working to be a conduit to access some of that talent. But it's still very much a challenge. And so, I think that's an area of opportunity.

Ryan: So, these are entrepreneurial questions. Here you have... I'm a white entrepreneur, and I'm asking questions about young black entrepreneurs. I'm a white capital investor. I'm asking questions about young black entrepreneurs who need capital. So, let's say that I was sitting here one day, and I said, “There is a pool of African-American talent that I want to tap into, and I want to help fund.” Would they take my money? Would the young black entrepreneurs take my money, or they would they say, “Man, I don't know if I want that guy’s money.”

Jay: Oh no. They would definitely take it. They would definitely take your money. Because they know that, in order to make it happen – to make this vision happen that they have – they need the capital. They need that capital to be able to scale. And so, that's always the challenge – it’s that we have these ideas, but...

Ryan: Where are you going to pitch them?

Jay: Yeah. Where do you go?

Ryan: So, there's not an agenda inside of this entrepreneurial circle saying, “Well, we really only want to take African-American money.” “We'll take money wherever. We're just Americans making businesses. And we'll take money from any American money that's green.”

Jay: Now, I think, for every entrepreneur, what you begin to learn is that you want to take the right capital, in terms of the right investor – because you have to have your alignment there. But I don't think that is the greatest issue, in terms of “We don't want to take money from a particular person.” If we want opportunity, we want real opportunity. And so, if I'm presenting something to you... Usually, for me, I'm the kind of person that makes sure every I is dotted, every T is crossed, and I go above and beyond so that I can make sure I answer every question before we even get there.

I have, obviously, mentors and advisors who are white. They don't look like me, and they say, “Man, I can't believe you’re just going with all this.” They look at what I do, and they’re just always amazed at how much extra I put into it. And I say, “Well, I have to.” Sometimes, they don't even understand.

I think, for a lot of minority entrepreneurs, they want that capital – because they want the resources to be able to bring this vision to life. But you have that disconnect a lot of times, of, “Well, I'm not necessarily comfortable investing in you.” And so, the capital doesn't come to them.

Ryan: Well, sometimes, capital speaks such a specific language, as you know.

Jay: Yes.

Ryan: And that's part of the language of American capitalism, which is colorless – in the sense that the money flows to the good ideas. But if you don't speak the language, you can't communicate about how good the ideas.

Jay: Yeah. I agree.

Ryan: Which, I think, is one of the one of the skill sets that you have to infuse young entrepreneurs who don't have exposure to capital markets. You have to teach them how to speak.

Jay: And that's a challenge as well. I’ll tell you, that's a challenge in itself, because I know, for me – as you said – I'm very curious. Right? I want to learn. But sometimes, accessing the people who will be willing to take the time to even educate – to mentor; to spend the time to even educate you on that – is not a challenge that some entrepreneurs have. I know that was a challenge for me. Significantly.

Ryan: This is a female challenge, right? I have a lot of female friends who want to be entrepreneurs, or who want to be real estate developers. And oftentimes, when you're a young, up-and-coming, entrepreneurial capital markets guy – real estate guy, whatever – your opportunities to learn oftentimes take place in very male-dominated activity.

So, a guy who's a seasoned entrepreneur – he might have time to let you come play a round of golf with him. Because he's working that into his schedule. And he's like, “Yeah, come play a round of golf. You get three hours to talk about whatever.” “Hey, come shoot shotguns with me,” you know. And so, you get integrated into these opportunities that are very social.

Jay: Exactly.

Ryan: But then, in their business life, they don't have time. They've got to get a whole bunch of stuff done so they can go play golf, or get a whole bunch of stuff done so they can go on some hunting trip, or whatever. And so, if you're not being invited to those kind of things, then you're missing out on these hugely educational conversations. That that not only applies to whatever culture, but then also applies to gender – because oftentimes, women are excluded.

Jay: You just hit the nail on the head. And that is part of the challenge as well. I know, for me, that was a significant part. I remember what opened me up to a lot of things. I wound up getting brought on to the board of Boy Scouts – the Boy Scouts of America in Central Florida. And being a part of this board... I mean, I remember being in one board meeting, and on one side of me, I had the regional CEO of AT&T. And on the other side of me, in a meeting, I had the regional president of Regions Bank – just being in it.

But not everybody has access to that. I'm thankful for that opportunity. But just being in those environments right now – you're interacting, and you're building those relationships, and you're able to learn a lot just from those environments. That's a challenge at times. Right?

Ryan: Well, what you're doing in the RYSE Creative Village is really building an ecosystem where you can create those kind of ‘Velcro opportunities’ – where if you just get one little piece of Velcro to hit the other little piece, suddenly, it all starts to blend together. That kind of an ecosystem is going to have a huge impact on... not only the young entrepreneurs that you're dealing with right this second. But as those young entrepreneurs have some success, and you teach them also about capital, and then they bring that capital back – now you get the kind of dynamic, entrepreneurial flow that leads to transformation of communities.

I mean, we think about the impact that Coca-Cola has had on Atlanta. The amount of Coca-Cola money that has gone all over the world, and then flows back to Atlanta, and then they build all kinds of buildings on universities. It built a huge amount of Emory. It's had impact on every level of society in Georgia – it’s sugar water. Which I'm drinking right now.

Jay: Yeah.

Ryan: And it just takes one of those to transform a place. So I think what you're doing is wonderfully impactful – in not just the immediate, but intergenerationally.

Jay: I appreciate it. And for us, the goal is, “Hey, this is the first one.” Right? And then I begin to identify, as we find success with this – then we scale, and identify other markets.

Ryan: Tell me: five years. What would the next five years – if you could just write a script – what would it look like?

Jay: If I could write a script for the next five years? We would be in multiple markets. I don't know which markets those are right now, but we would have multiple locations in multiple markets. We have relationships, and we're creating this pipeline of talent for the film industry; for the music industry, and for the digital media world. We just have this this pipeline of talent that is flowing, creating opportunities. And this is flowing back to us as well. We're just scaling and growing from there.

Ryan: Would you do another one in Atlanta first, or would you go somewhere else?

Jay: That's a great question. I'm not sure. Probably another area than where we're located right now. This is really ideal for what we're looking to do. But I'm not sure if we would do another one here.

Ryan: You're not open yet?

Jay: No, we're not open. We're about to go through construction – so we're in the design phase, actually, right now.

Ryan: Yeah. And when will doors open?

Jay: Summer 2021.

Ryan: That's around the corner.

Jay: Yes. The only thing slowing us down, obviously, is COVID. And we've obviously been – with our buildout, and things that we're doing – we're taking the necessary precautions with that. But that's the only thing that will slow us down, as we go through the process with the city.

Ryan: Well, good. Jay, we're out of time, but this has been fantastic. Thank you for taking the time, man.

Jay: I appreciate you all having me.

Ryan: It's our pleasure. Have a great day. We'll talk soon. I'm Ryan Millsap, and this is the Blackhall Studios Podcast.

***

Ryan: Putting an exclamation point on the end of each podcast. I share inspirational sayings that I write on Instagram. “There is not one good reason for worry. There is eternal reason to be present now.”

***

Thanks for listening to the Blackhall Studios Podcast with Ryan Millsap. We want to hear from you! Find us on SoundCloud, iTunes or Spotify, and follow us on Instagram at @Ryan.Millsap.