Olympic Medalist Norman Bellingham Gets the Gold - with Ryan Millsap

Ryan Millsap, Chairman & CEO of Atlanta-based Blackhall Studios, is one of today’s top entertainment executives! With a vision for Blackhall that’s ambitious, energizing and boundless, Millsap is blazing a trail through the heart of the South – and setting his sights on the future of entertainment. Listen and learn as Ryan Millsap journeys through the myriad industries, people and landscapes that traverse the complex and dynamic world of film production.

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Ryan: I'm Ryan Millsap, host of the Blackhall Studios Podcast from Atlanta, Georgia. I'm an entrepreneur mostly by necessity, because I have massive authority issues, and also by constitution – as the entrepreneurial life is filled with things I love: freedom, adventure, creativity and imagination. When I began this leg of my journey into the entertainment industry, you may find it interesting to know that my background before this was all commercial real estate.

And then I built Blackhall Studios as a specialty real estate project for production giants like Disney, Sony, Warner Bros, and Universal to have a place to ply their skilled craft of production. I'm from Los Angeles, but I moved to Atlanta six years ago. I've done business all over the world, and I know few places with the dynamism of Atlanta. It's a world-class city with a huge economic future as a center of commerce for a global economy. On this podcast, we get local and global and talk to people who are inspirational, sensational, sometimes motivational, but at all times somehow tied to the ecosystem that is the culture and business of entertainment as it relates to Blackhall Studios.

Norman Bellingham has been described as a man who truly embodies the Olympic spirit and its values. A Harvard undergrad and a Harvard MBA, Norman Bellingham became interested in sports through his love of the outdoors. A sprint kayaker, Bellingham reached his pinnacle performance when he took home the gold at the 1988 Seoul Summer games. From athlete to executive, Norman eventually became the chief operating officer of the United States Olympic Committee, and has served the organization as a consultant, a supporter, and as an athlete for almost four decades. A surprisingly humble guy, Norman Bellingham is the real deal: father, friend, and U.S. Olympic gold medalist. I know you'll like this talk.

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Ryan: Hi, this is Ryan Millsap. Welcome to the Blackhall Podcast. Today, we are fortunate to have Norman Bellingham on with us. He's a former Olympic gold medalist and a former member of the US Olympic Committee. Norman, welcome to the show.

Norman: Thank you. Ryan, it's great to be here with you.

Ryan: Thank you for taking the time. Where are you sheltering in place or quarantining?

Norman: I'm in Colorado Springs, on the side of Cheyenne Mountain — looking out over the plains.

Ryan: What a beautiful part of the country. I have uncles who are from that part of the world. They used to run a turf farm called West Turf Farm in Colorado Springs, and we used to spend a lot of time out there when I was a kid. There are few places as beautiful as the Colorado Rockies.

Norman: Oh, it's gorgeous. There are wonderful people out here, too — the kind of people that built the country.

Ryan: So true. How long have you lived there?

Norman: I've been here since 2006, although I did live here for a couple of years in the mid-90s. It doesn't qualify me as a native, but my daughters have grown up here now, so they consider themselves Colorado girls.

Ryan: What part of the country did you grow up in?

Norman: My father was in the Foreign Service. Actually, he was in the CIA; I didn't know it at the time. I grew up in Asia for the most part — although I did spend a lot of time in the DC area. I went to some of junior high school, and then high school, there. Rockville, Maryland — just outside of DC — that's where I went to high school. And I was in college and grad school up in Boston.

Ryan: And when you go to grad school in Boston, does that always mean Harvard?

Norman: It does. Yeah.

Ryan: I usually ask people. When they tell me they went to grad school in Boston, I say, “Oh, BU?” But they always mean Harvard. I know, you know.

Norman: They teach us that early on. “Always say ‘Boston.’” That’s what they say.

Ryan: I know; it's a cultural norm. What was it like, finding out your dad was in the CIA? And when did you find that out?

Norman: Wow. That's a story I haven't told. I found out when a friend of mine — we lived in Nepal together — was visiting us in DC, and we were talking about the old days when we were living in Katmandu. And he kept talking about my father not being in the State Department — which I believed he had been — but on the intelligence side of things. And I went and asked my father about it.

I was probably 14, 15 years old. My father sat me down and said, “Yes, actually, that's what I did.” He was in clandestine services, so the work he was doing was the sort that you didn't share with all the members of your family. My older brother found out sooner than I did, but I found out at that age.

Ryan: What was your emotional response to finding out your dad was a clandestine agent?

Norman: It's interesting. My older brother thought it was very cool. I actually felt somewhat deceived. I grew up sort of believing that the height of ambition, if I wanted to follow in the footsteps of my father, was to try to be an ambassador. I always also wondered why he didn't seem to have any ambition to be an ambassador. He was high up. He was chief of station in Nepal. But he didn't seem to have an interest in seeking ambassadorship in another country, which would have been the next path he would have taken, had he been in the State Department. I had to go through a period of adjustment, and come to terms with the fact that he wasn't what I thought he was.

Ryan: Did you address that with him? I mean, did you psychologically process through that, or did you just feel like, “All right, I'm 15. I’ve got to swallow this and move on. I don't know how the world works, but I know I need to keep my head on a swivel.”

Norman: It was more of the latter. I mean, he didn't disclose much of what he had done. So I really didn't have much information to put context around it, and just sort of deal with that and move on. Frankly, I wasn't necessarily that interested, at that stage, in the sort of things he was doing. It wasn't a world that had captured my interest up until then. I wasn't a big reader of John le Carré. I was 15 years old. What I knew about spies was basically James Bond, and things like that. And that's not what he was. He was clearly involved in some pretty meaningful activities in that part of the world.

Ryan: It's interesting; you made a comment earlier about the people that built America, and it struck me, because my father was a Special Forces Recon Marine in Vietnam. He didn't talk a lot about that at all until later in life. And when he started to share openly, it was incredibly helpful to me to understanding his soul — understanding where he came from, and why he was the way he was in many ways. It brought me a lot of peace.

Norman: Where’d he grow up?

Ryan: He grew up in Springfield, Missouri, in the Ozark Mountains.

Norman: Oh, wow. That's America. They're just very special people. Remarkable people come from the Midwest. And those are frontier areas — you know, probably a little bit before his time. But, nonetheless, there are still elements of the frontier out there. And pretty special people came out of those areas.

Ryan: It's the truth. My dad is multi-generation Southern Missouri. My mom is multi-generation Nebraska, and grew up on a cattle ranch in Northern Nebraska in a little town called Valentine. And I'll tell you what: you don't realize it, or I didn't realize it growing up, but the amount of time I got to spend in southern Missouri and Nebraska with those soulful people — you know, growing up on the West Coast, but then getting to spend a lot of time in the Midwest — in retrospect, I see how invaluable it was in the shaping of my soul.

Norman: Yeah. My mother grew up on a dairy farm in Bemidji, Minnesota, and during a few of the summers, we had R&R with them. We'd get sent back to work on the farm with my older brother. It gave you insight as to the people that immigrated up to this country and, just by force of character, made it. And I think the places like Nebraska — if you look at the plains of Kansas, and the eastern plains in Colorado, the high desert areas — there are people there that were the backbone of this country when it was coming into its fullness.

Ryan: Well, these people take nothing for granted, and they expect no one to fix it for them, which is a rugged self-sufficiency. The thing that makes me philosophically fascinated in this is that, right now, Wisconsin — I think you probably saw that the Wisconsin Supreme Court judge ruled that the governor had no right to tell people to shelter in place. What do you think about how this American ethos of rugged independence matches or mismatches with the ethics or decisions that need to be made inside of a pandemic?

Norman: Well, I struggle with that. I mean, are we moving to an increasingly socialistic society where people have to do what's best for the collective society, or do we respect the individual spirit that was such a part of the creation of the country? I understand both sides of it. I would think that we're moving towards the former — that is, the socialist side. But there are some real downsides to that.

So maybe we're moving toward some sort of sense of greater stillness. That is, people may migrate from the cities, and so forth, into smaller communities — where they can protect themselves from things like these pandemics, still be creative, come to know themselves as individuals, and bring the benefits of that individuality to their communities and to the larger society. I don't know what the answer is to all that.

Ryan: How do you think that America is learning about itself in this crazy chaos of the pandemic?

Norman: I don't know if America is yet learning about itself. People are coming close to their families. I’m down with my two daughters and wife, and I think we’re getting closer and coming to know one another more than we have ever since the girls were in elementary school. So that's a positive thing. It's bringing us closer — and maybe there's a greater sense of responsibility to one's local community as a result of this. I think the lessons are still to be learned. We've not undergone a great reflection quite yet, as far as what this all does mean.

Ryan: How old are your daughters?

Norman: I have a freshman in college and a junior in college. So I have a 19 year old and a 21 year old.

Ryan: They're just getting out on their own, and now they get to come back to the nest for a minute.

Norman: Yeah. They weren't happy about that initially, but they've adapted. They're young. So, this is the new normalcy.

Ryan: What kind of things have you guys, as a family, been talking about? You've had this really unique time. I mean, I've experienced it, too. Just this really unique time of having what feels like a step back in time — 50 or 100 years — family time.

Norman: You know, it does feel like that. I do think about how this is how people on frontiers used to behave in a regular manner. That is, they were all together as a family, and they would sit and have conversations about whatever was the topic of the day.

As an example: the other day, there was a judgment that came down against the women's soccer team — the national team — as it relates to their fighting for equal pay. And so we brought up that subject for discussion. We looked into it. We were trying to understand why the judge made the decision that he made; what this means for women’s sports. Does society owe women an opportunity to make as much money as the men do in the professional leagues? Why are people fighting against this so much?

If you read the rhetoric in some of the comments in the newspapers, and so forth, in the comment section, they're pretty misogynistic and harsh. Where does that come from? What’s driving the fear, and what is society to do to with these things in the long run? Do you use the existing models and structured laws? Or you can potentially look at reshaping some of those to rectify those things that are unfair to many people in our society.

I mean, that's the sort of thing we talk about. I don't know if we go down that path all the time. A lot of times it's about Tiger King, or people like that. We certainly have a lot of discussions like that. But it's, by and large, just allowing each other to talk. I think we're probably learning a lot more, and getting to know our respective characters. There’s a lot more listening, much less volatility, than in those comments, and I think it's very, very healthy.

Ryan: Well, when I look at your life — well, what I know of it — I see a lot of vision and discipline to accomplish all the things that you have. How much of that do you think you were born with, and how much of it do you think was inculcated in you through your childhood and upbringing?

Norman: I think some of it genetic — that is, you're born with things. But, by and large, I was presented with a lot of opportunities, and I was very fortunate to find myself amongst a group of kayakers in the DC area — whitewater racers who were world class. And there was a coach there that was a bit of a philosopher. He knew nine languages, and he was devoting his time to the sport and the training of the athletes as a volunteer. These people really took me under their wings and taught me about honing one's passion, applying discipline to that, and coming up with some good results that showed you the value of those basics — like hard work and planning.

Ultimately, if you learn that at a young age, the benefits really continue to transfer on to other things for the rest of your life — as long as you reflect back on it and don't leave it as an isolated incident. You think it's just a process that can be transferred to other things. The laws of pursuing influence are relatively the same in most fields. I think it was the environment, by and large, that shaped who I was — and particularly, my exposure to that people and to this coach in particular.

Ryan: So, this winter, I was talking to Bode Miller about his career, and he was wonderfully humble and candid about this notion that, in his mind, he wasn't the best athlete. And frankly, in a lot of people's minds who were analysts, he wasn't the best athlete compared to his peers. Bode just said, “I just was willing to outwork them and out-risk them.” How do you describe — when you think of your success — how do you describe your success as an athlete mentally? What was your edge, and how did you get there?

Norman: I was able to, with the system, hook up with some great athletes — in, first, the sport of whitewater slalom. Then I went down to New Zealand, where the best team in the Western world was. They were the ones taking on the East Germans and the Russians. They were older than me, and they were kind enough to share their process for achieving the levels that they were at. They had taken lessons from other sports — from track and field — and they were always inquiring outside of their circle into sports in other fields to understand how to achieve excellence.

They worked incredibly hard as well. I mean, I remember being so exhausted in training one time, after my first 2 or 3 weeks in New Zealand. I went to this fellow, Ian Ferguson, who’d won three gold medals at the time of the games. And I said, “This must be the hardest part of training,” because I was dizzy. I could barely walk or think; I was just trying to get down to practice, do another one, and then go back and sleep.

He said, “We're just starting.” And I remember thinking to myself, “This is going to be a lot harder than I thought it was. These people are willing to work incredibly hard.” So, understanding that there's always another level you can do — that there’s certainly not an 8 to 5, 9 to 5 activity. You're thinking about, basically, 24 hours a day. And when I say 24 hours, think about your sleep in a context of that helping you to recover for your next session.

I think that's true for the people trying to figure out semiconductors and Bell Labs, or whatever. You become almost obsessed with the environment that you're in. And it’s fun, frankly. That’s a lot of it as well. You get in a group of people that you're having fun with; you're exchanging ideas. I think those are key elements that I always look for — finding people that I can spend time with, that I enjoy, and who have similar goals, and they're willing to exchange ideas. Finding people that are willing to engage in a two-way street that way is important.

Frankly, in New Zealand, I didn't have too much to offer other than that I was young blood. I was a good deal younger than those guys. And I was willing to just keep coming to practice and working incredibly hard with them. My success was an affirmation to them. Their system was working. I saw that.

Ryan: Well, part of success is that grind. But part of the ability to survive the grind is finding things to do that you actually find joyful — which, it sounds like you love the process. Is that fair to say?

Norman: I became fascinated by the process. I think that's the key thing — it’s the process. You throw yourself into that. And trying to improve the process; you have to really understand it, so you can make iterative improvements. And if you're so lucky, you can dream of a few things that are disruptive to the process. It takes it to a whole new level. I never did that, but that took place in the sport. I was able to adapt to those changes, along with the group.

You just become fully absorbed by that, and it gives you a sense of identity. You're a goal seeker, and you come to believe that this goal of becoming a better kayaker — which frankly, doesn't matter much in the larger scheme of things — is important. You’re never asking, you know, “Why are we doing this? What are we basically killing ourselves to try to be the best kayakers? I mean, I can understand why the East Germans and Russians are doing it — because it's important to the nation states that they present themselves as a successful system around the world at the games. But why are we doing it?”

They just said, “Look — what else are you going to do with your life? We can push humanity in this small little area. That’s a fun thing to do, and we can get away with it. We're going to keep doing it.” And that was it for me. That was enough for me. Plus, I love it. Kayaking is wonderful. It’s similar to rowing and other sports that get you out in nature. You're on the water, you're enjoying being outside, and you're with other people, so you're getting to compete for fun. So kind of like playing outside all the time.

Ryan: Well, I found sports to be incredibly grounding. I definitely come with a more ethereal personality, and to be able to have my feet on the ground, and my hands on a ball, and somebody pushing against me, trying to uproot me, was enough to spiritually ground me into the earth in a deeper way than I probably would have otherwise lived. So I'm incredibly grateful to sports. Where have you experienced all these lessons you learned in sport? Because they sound like they carried right over into a lot of the other things you've done with your career.

Norman: In business, sometimes — whether it be with a nonprofit or for profit — you look at the larger projects you're working on, and there's usually something very legitimate about those projects. You’re overseeing the company, and by extension, the industry, and by extension, making humanity ideally a little bit better off. If you can find that justification for work, and you find it interesting, and therefore throw yourself into it full-step — that is, it’s all you think and sleep and dream about.

But as you get there, you have family and so forth, so you just take all of that to ensure you have some kind of balance. But you push yourself pretty darn hard, and great things come from that. People are attracted to that. That's the other thing I found that was really interesting. Really good people are attracted to that sort of passion, and some sense of direction.

Maybe it’s something that's, in hindsight, relatively small. At the time, it seems like it’s really important. It seems like you're involved closely with some sort of pursuit of some importance. It pushes you to your limits, or pushes you close to them. And you’re doing that with other people who are also feeling the same thing. That’s just a wonderful connection.

I got a note from someone in the old kayaking world the other day, and they were talking about glory — you know, remembering the glory days. He had a picture of himself with a smile on his face. And he was reflecting back on when we were winning. It wasn't the racing; it was training together, and pushing one another. And I think that some of the people I've worked with feel the same way when we meet up with each other again. I did a conference with some old work colleagues, and I think that remembering those times — the smiles we see on each other’s faces when we see each other again — brings us back to a time when we were pursuing something that maybe wasn't all that important. But we thought it was. And we had a great time together.

Ryan: Have you been watching the Michael Jordan documentary called ‘The Last Dance’ on ESPN?

Norman: I've seen some of the episodes. I haven't seen them all. I think I've seen a few.

Ryan: What have been some of your takeaways as an athlete, watching one of the greatest athletes of all time from a success standpoint — as they as they start to unmask some of the life of Jordan inside of sport? What have been some of your takeaways watching that?

Norman: Well, first, it’s the extraordinary athleticism of those guys. They really were remarkable, particularly Jordan. And I remember, at the time — we're talking the late 80s and 90s, when Jordan was playing — it was inspirational to everybody around the world. You couldn't watch him and not think, “This is magnificent — what our species is capable of doing.”

So that brings me back, in that I don't know if I've felt that way about anybody since that time. That's one of the first things that hits me. But the other thing that's almost shocking to me — I mean, I knew it at the time — was the extraordinary depth and lifestyles and activities that one got up to outside of sport. That is, I mean, these people were rock stars beyond that level. I wasn’t fully aware of all that.

I’m somewhat fascinated by all of that. I have no envy for it; I think more that it's amazing that those guys survived all that in one piece. I would guess there's a whole other story to be told about how the NBA, and others, helped the people manage that transition to a world in which everybody wanted a piece of them and they were being tempted on every level. How did they stay alive? How did they avoid issues like addiction? Maybe they didn’t, completely. But how did they keep their heads on their shoulders and keep focusing on the real task at hand — which was to perform well on the court, day in and day out? I find that fascinating. And I just want to know more, frankly.

Ryan: Have you ever read the book ‘The Inner Game of Tennis?’

Norman: Years and years ago. I think that was maybe the first sports psychology book that came out, talking about... what did they talk about? It was about, really, getting in your head. And also understanding what was going on with your opponent as well, in the psychological standpoint — moving away from just a technical analysis of the game.

Ryan: That's right. It was all really focused on that. What I took away is the spiritual exercise that athletics turns out to be. What do you think about that notion? I think of sports as almost like a Buddhist practice. How do you respond to that?

Norman: Well, I think there's something extraordinarily special about sports that teaches young people, indirectly, the beauty of being fully engaged — mentally and physically — in something. Pushing yourself to the limits. And that’s almost a spiritual thing. It's a wholeness. It's not just an intellectual exercise. It's not just physical labor. You're pulling upon all your resources, mental and physical, do something — and you're relying upon other people walking along with you, either in training or actually in an event, to do the same. In a team boat, rowing, or in basketball, when you're with a team. That's a particular special feeling, when everybody is fully engaged in mind and body that way.

I don't know if that's quite what the Dalai Lama teaches. Buddhists — I don't think of them as engaging in sports. But I think it does affect you to a greater degree than most other activities; with yourself and with the world. You're fully alive at that moment. Mountaineers talk a lot about that, particularly, because the element of risk there adds another factor that, again, makes people that much more alive.

So there is something spiritual about sport. Certainly, I have to say that. And I think of Eric Liddell, the great Catholic from Scotland, in the 1920s, who was immortalized in ‘Chariots of Fire,’ a missionary who spent time in China. He went back to China as a missionary after winning gold at the ‘24 Paris games. I think he understood the beauty of sport, and how it affected him as something larger. Is that God? What is that? I don't know; something very powerful.

Ryan: I love his great quote where he says, “I feel God's pleasure when I run.”

Norman: You know, the writer of that screenplay, Colin Welland, who has since passed — I always thought he was almost divinely directed when he wrote that, because I've read the screenplay a number of times, and there's never a scene left out. It seems as if he really, truly understood all those characters. It’s almost inexplicable. And they talk about the making of the film. It’s as if, every time something is about to go wrong, the clouds would break and the sun would come in, and — reading, hearing, the, director talk about it — they’d look up at the sky and say, “Eric's looking out after us.”

It's important that they told his story. It was his story that really sparked the creation of the film. Although I’ll say that the story of the Jewish runner, Harold Abrahams, was one that proved to be as captivating — because it captured the spirit of the rising in the specialized professional athlete pursuing excellence, and somewhat rejecting the older approach. So the contrast was remarkable.

Obviously, the two respected each other greatly in real life. It was Eric Liddell that introduced Harold Abrahams to Coach Sam Mussabini, who took Harold to his gold medal winning performance in the 100 meters. They were close; they worked together. It’s a beautiful story.

Ryan: So, it sounds to me like you experienced some similar things as an athlete. You might describe it differently, but you probably resonate with something along the lines of, “I feel God's pleasure when I run.” Where else in your life have you experienced that? In your career life, where do you look back and say, “That was happiness; that was joy; that was real; I was alive?”

Norman: I've worked on a couple big projects. It was usually a small group; 2 or 3 other people, working on something that was equal to the company. One case was with the Olympic Committee. The other case was with Turner Broadcasting. And with both cases, we truly felt that the work we were doing was going to make a huge difference for the future of the company and would also be of great value to the industry, or to the world. We threw ourselves into that, full-step.

It was exciting. It was the sort of thing where we were emailing and texting each other at all hours of the night; you couldn't wait to wake up in the morning and start again. When you get those opportunities, you grab them, and you see them. It’s the idea that’s knocking quietly sometimes at the door. You've got to be aware. And if you do recognize it, you seize the opportunity. You go for it.

A number of people are doing that. Other people — these sort of people matter, that are interested in the same things. They migrate to you. They gravitate towards you. And it just becomes that much more strong. In both the instances I have in my mind, there was somebody with a very clear vision as to what this all means; serving as the primary gear, driving that process. And the others functioned as smaller cogs. And then there are these surrounding entities that also come in to play a role. The power system really begins to hit full force. And it's pretty remarkable, because you feel that; you sense it. And it does do wonderful things. You're growing something; you’re cooking something. It's life — well, not necessarily. It's something manmade, but it's still very special.

Ryan: Well, when I think of happiness, I think of a lot of different things. But imagine that your daughters came to you, and they said, “Dad, how do I find happiness?” What do you tell them?

Norman: One of the first core pieces in that equation is knowing who you are. But how do you find out who you are? If you can find something that you're passionate about, and you can find other people who feel the same way, then you throw yourself into that. Bliss comes from that experience: the flow that you experience, because you become an expert in something, and you're involved with others that are also performing at a high level in that area. It gives you a sense of identity. It gives you a sense of who you are. You are shaping your character, and coming into your character as well — and you're growing as a person. I think that gives a sense of fullness.

Pursuing things that society puts before us; opportunities — that's one way to do it. Those are my thoughts on how one finds, in which there healing and rebirthing themselves, so to speak. I think you've been doing that your whole life: always finding a new way to keep growing. I mean, it sounds almost trite to say it, but I think there's a lot of wisdom in that. And I think that gives a sense of purpose. It's tied to a passion, and to your identity. It gives you a greater sense of wholeness that will often lead to something close to happiness, I think.

Ryan: You've gotten to be a leader. You've gotten to serve under other, I think, really great leaders. I know Peter Ueberroth has an incredible reputation as a leader. Tell me about some of that experience — the vision behind that; the strategy behind that. Take us behind the scenes: how do people put on an Olympics? What does that look like?

Norman: Peter was an extraordinary individual, and that's what attracted me to work for him. He attracted me kind of out of the blue back in 2006. And he had a vision. I mean, he was clearly somebody — I don’t know if I’d say he was a visionary, but he had a clear vision as to how things should be in a world which was relatively stagnant: the Olympic world. It really operates in a monopoly-type environment. And Peter thought of ways in which it could be taken to a completely different level. He didn't tolerate people that were putting up obstacles that were unnecessary. And he pushed himself, and pushed others, incredibly hard to get to that vision — and to get you to buy into it as well.

Peter was a little old school. Sometimes he’d mentor us with a stick. I talked to Peter. I was probably talking to him 15 to 20 hours a week, I'm sure. And it was always, “What did you do today? What did you do yesterday? What are you going to do tomorrow? And why didn't you do that already?” It was forcing. I would get frustrated, but he was pushing myself and others to stretch ourselves to levels that we were uncomfortable with. But often, as is the case, we prided ourselves that we could get things done that helped people, and frankly, ourselves, we didn't think could get done.

So, Peter reimagined the games in ‘84. It was just a reflection of that sort of spirit. I don’t think he's given enough credit outside of the United States for what he did. But it was pretty remarkable. The games almost died in the 80s, because of the boycott of the Moscow games, and then there was no other city other than Los Angeles that was willing to take on the task of hosting the ‘84 games, because cities could lose so much money. Montreal lost about $1 billion in 1976 hosting the games. Peter changed the model, and harnessed the value of entertainment, but he was also incredibly respectful of the athletes and the spirit that they were bringing to the field of play; to the arena as a whole. It made a magical environment. It completely reinvigorated the movement, and inspired a whole new economic standpoint — changing how much money came in from television and sponsors.

But I think it triggered a new group of athletes — young people that watched the ’84 games on TV in Los Angeles were inspired to maybe do something else with their lives and pursue a very high level of sport. The ripple effects were extraordinary. That's the sort of thing I've been with groups of people pursuing the highest levels of. You often hear those sort of comments over on the periphery; they’re saying, “Well after the fact, what you guys were doing — what so-and-so was doing within that group inspired me.” And it's never the intention to inspire somebody else, but it is a wonderful output of an engaged sort of process.

Ryan: So, when you think about what we're going through as a country right now — and we're running out of time, so I want to I want to ask you a couple questions about America, and your vision for America. All the things we're going through right now — obviously, it’s a time where there's a lot of leadership needed. But when I think of the next generation — you know, the next generation of Americans — what are some of your hopes? Maybe tell me two hopes for the fundamental character of what it means to be an American, that you hope is not lost — and, in fact, maybe even enhanced — in the next generation of Americans.

Norman: I'd like to think that this lockdown period results in a somewhat extended period of reflection for Americans, in which we think about what really matters. I’m thinking about those three generations, the ones who built the country — what values they had, that they went through, to build it into a modern empire, so to speak. How do we do something of similar magnitude?

Clearly the existing system has many things right now. If we can riff on those in a positive way, and try to identify a way to move forward so that we can encounter future challenges in a more productive manner — and in a more collectively good manner than is the case right now — I'd like to think that's one of the outcomes.

The fragmentation of the country into political groups certainly doesn’t feel productive, and that's painful to watch as that continues. But I'd like to think that there is a coming together increasing — maybe in smaller communities — and people focusing on that. That is, they don’t need to necessarily stay in small villages — but they’re coming together physically in smaller communities, and engaging with one another through the benefits of technology with the larger world, and harnessing the great value of the people of this country, to help society get back in a position to really thrive yet again.

And it doesn't just allow growth in the economy, but allows for individuals to thrive. To be creative, and allow more individuals to find out who they are. I'd like to think there's that outcome with resetting the values that we have. Moving away from some of the continuing materialism that really has been rampant and driving our society. We need to take a step back from that to reflect on what really matters.

It was one of my favorite quotes from ‘Chariots of Fire.’ Abrahams is toasting that coach, Mussabini, after he's won. And he says to him something along the lines of, “Stop stop, stop.” Sam tells him, “You care about what really matters. And if you hadn't, I wouldn't have come within a mile of you.” Something along those lines — and I'll reflect on it. What does that mean? What really matters? I think it's caring about things bigger than oneself. As much as Harold did care about how he did himself, what he really about was pushing the standards of mankind, and what role he could play in that. I’d like to think that that sort of spirit can be harnessed in those people. Maybe our society could do more of that, and do so in a way that’s in keeping with those generations that had come before us.

Ryan: Staying with our sports theme a little bit — I think when we watch the game film of the Covid era... at least Covid part one, or pandemic part one, I think we'll look back and say, “Man, we were really bad at that. We were just not ready. We weren't prepared. We weren't mentally prepared; physically prepared. We had no idea really how to deal with such an opponent.”

And the beauty, in my mind — I mean, one of the many beauties — but one of the beautiful things about Americans is that Americans aren't afraid to fail and get better. It's one of the things that makes us so wonderfully entrepreneurial, right? Because you can't be an entrepreneur if you truly have a fear of failure. You can't be a great athlete if you're afraid to go to take on opponents that might beat you. The only way that you can rise to the top is if you're willing to take your failures and examine them with very clear eyes; be very ‘eyes wide open’ with yourself. So, as you look at how we've handled this pandemic, what do you think some of the lessons will be as we reflect on how we handled ‘pandemic 1.0?’

Norman: The big one that strikes me — and I think that because I'm a strategist — is that we, deeply, as a society, underestimate the value of planning for these types of things that had been seen. We knew that pandemics could happen. There should have been a plan. There should have been multiple plans for various scenarios that could have unfolded. And I think visiting that sort of preparation, if you will, is important — and putting more value on that.

We should move away from short-term, knee-jerk responses to things that hit us to real planning — and valuing that. And understanding that it is a worthwhile endeavor for people to engage in, and for leaders to be involved with. I heard Disney's new CEO on TV the other day. He said, “I could never have seen this coming.” Well, actually, you know, people did see this coming. I was kind of stunned that they didn't have a plan in place. They had an early iteration of a plan in place, but they really didn't take it to the next level. I think we could have done a better job with that.

So I'd like to think that that's one of the bigger takeaways — that we, as a society, look at how other things could hit our system. We are an increasingly fragile society, and there will be other things we need to prepare for. This isn't going to be a one-off. And it may not be a pandemic that hits us next time. Maybe there's a computer virus that attacks everything and shuts things down. What do we do if nobody has internet access for a month? When it shuts down the banking system, and so forth? How do we deal with that?

It's best if we not try to figure it out on the fly, and try to let politicians give us their soundbite answers as to what needs to be done. It would be great if experts had really thought this through in advance, and they're allowed to help lead the conversation in those situations. I think that's one of the takeaways. Not that experts need to the only ones you listen to, but I would like to think that we do take the time to realize that there will be additional challenges in our increasingly fragile system, and we should be prepared with well-thought-through responses to those. How do we respond? What should we do?

Ryan: Well, Norman, it has been such a pleasure to get to have this conversation with somebody as experienced and thoughtful as yourself. I really appreciate you being on our program. How can people find you if they want to try to look for you online or hunt you down? Do you have any social media? Is that a thing you do — or how can people find you?

Norman: Oh, I suppose on Facebook and LinkedIn. But I think the best way for somebody to get ahold of me is just via my email: normanbellingham@comcast.net. That’s how they can get ahold of me in the simplest way.

Ryan: Well, that's a very direct way, and I appreciate it. Thanks for being on the program. I'd love to do it again sometime if you have time.

Norman: It's been great to talk to you. I look forward to that.

Ryan: Thanks, Norman. Have a great day.

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Ryan: I'll leave you guys with thoughts that I write on Instagram. “The entire world is yours today. The universe has told it to exist just for you.”

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Thanks for listening to the Blackhall Studios Podcast with Ryan Millsap. We want to hear from you! Find us on SoundCloud, iTunes or Spotify, and follow us on Instagram at @Ryan.Millsap.