The Journey of Navid Negahban - Refugee, Actor, Philanthropist - with Ryan Millsap

Ryan Millsap, Chairman & CEO of Atlanta-based Blackhall Studios, is one of today’s top entertainment executives! With a vision for Blackhall that’s ambitious, energizing, and boundless, Millsap is blazing a trail through the heart of the South – and setting his sights on the future of entertainment. Listen and learn as Ryan Millsap journeys through the myriad industries, people, and landscapes that traverse the complex and dynamic world of film production.

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Ryan: Welcome to the Blackhall Studios Podcast. I'm Ryan Millsap. I got into the moviemaking business by being a real estate entrepreneur, but also because I'm a big movie fan. I get a huge kick out of watching blockbuster movies that I watch being made at Blackhall. COVID-19 has put a temporary crimp in production — hasn't it for everybody? But some amazing movies will be shooting at our studio soon, and I'll have some amazing folks on the podcast.

I'm also into ethics and philosophy, and I think you'll see those themes throughout the podcast. So, you're wondering: where exactly does the movie business and philosophy come together? That's the journey I want to take you on the Blackhall Studios Podcast. I’ll bring you guests from both worlds, and I think you'll be surprised at how much philosophy goes into the world of making movies. Plus, you'll get an inside look at the new Hollywood of the South right here in Atlanta, Georgia. Give a listen. I think you'll enjoy what you hear. I'm happy to have you along for the ride on the Blackhall Studios Podcast.

Actor Navid Negahban, the man of a thousand faces, is best known as the enigmatic Al-Qaeda leader on the hit series ‘Homeland.’ But his journey from his homeland of Iran is equally remarkable. Navid was forced to flee Iran at age 20 because of the internal conflict, and still speaks out for refugees, even to this day. He learned his craft while in Germany, and has been a scene stealer in American shows like Fox's ‘24,’ ‘The West Wing,’ ‘CSI New York’ and ‘NCIS Los Angeles.’ He steals more than a scene for me in this episode. I think you'll enjoy it. Join me for a great conversation with actor Navid Negahban.

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Ryan: Welcome to the Blackhall Podcast. Today, we are fortunate to have Navid Negahban, who is one of the foremost actors out of Iran. He's had a huge, successful career here in the United States. Navid, welcome to the program.

Navid: Oh, thank you so much, Ryan. Thanks for having me.

Ryan: It's absolutely our pleasure. Tell us a little bit about how you ended up in the United States.

Navid: Well, I left Iran during the war, and I went to Turkey — from Turkey to Bulgaria. And then I was in Germany, where I applied for asylum. I was in Germany for about eight and a half years. And that's where I started my career. Then I moved to the U.S. back in ‘93. The first ten years was very rough. But now here we are, and I'm sitting here talking to you.

Ryan: Tell us a little bit about it. What was it like getting out of Iran in that era? I mean, it was such a chaotic time.

Navid: It was very difficult. I mean, it was chaos. We were in the middle of the war. I remember that most of my high school friends — when you were in the 12th grade, if you wanted to go to university, you were kind of forced to go and join the military: serve as a police officer in the city, or go to the front line. Just imagine: your high schools here are filled with trophies of the sport events. Our school, the walls were covered with pictures with a black ribbon on it — the young kids who went to war and never came back.

You come to the class, and all of a sudden, you see that there is a red tulip sitting next to you where your friend used to sit. When you open a red tulip, you will see: at the center of the red tulip, there is a black dot, and it looks like a bullet wound. So a red tulip represented that the person is not coming back. That was the environment that I grew up in. Before that, it was beautiful. It was very Americanized; very westernized. It was a hub for everyone from Europe to come to Iran, because the pay was well, and it was a beautiful country.

Ryan: I have a lot of Persian friends, because I lived in Los Angeles for a long time, and there’s a huge Persian population of families just like yourself that that left Iran during the revolution.

Navid: Yeah, I know. Lots of my friends left. Lots of them left. All my Jewish friends; they left. All my Baha’i friends; they left. And it was a difficult time. When we were in Turkey, we all landed in Istanbul. And I remember the very first room that I got. All the hotels, they were packed. There was no room. So, the very first room that I got — it was a toilet. They’d covered the floor with wood. It had no window, and it had only one bed in it. That was my first stop outside Iran.

And then, in Germany, we were in the camp. We were in the refugee camp in Kaiserslautern — and the Ingelheim refugee camp, which still exists. This camp had fences around it; barbed wires around it. And I was just kind of feeling like being in one of those prison camps.

Ryan: How old were you at the time?

Navid: I was twenty.

Ryan: Amazing.

Navid: We had to be processed. I was lucky; I was processed. I was sent to Kaiserslautern. And when I was in Kaiserslautern... see, my journey — when we are going through our journey, the universe hands us gifts that sometimes we don't understand. We don't know how to take it. If we are welcoming all of those gifts, it will come in handy. It will become a tool for us, for our future. And I remember... if I'm talking too much, just tell me. “Be quiet.”

Ryan: No, I love this. I can’t wait to hear about the gift that you received in Germany — or at least one of them.

Navid: See, when I was in Iran, I started my career. The very first time I stepped on the stage, I was eight years old. I did school plays. I fell in love with it, and that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be an actor. And then, I had a friend who was deaf. One day he took me to his coffee shop — or his kind of theater gathering area. I went there, and I saw all these kids — all these deaf kids — that were performing. It was so much emotion in that room that it really brought tears to my eyes. And I fell in love with pantomime and mime. So I started joining their group, and I started working with them.

Then, when I went to Germany — when I was processed, and I went to Kaiserslautern — there is a theater company called Rhineland Falls Theater in Kaiserslautern, which was a huge theater company at that time. They were doing Sunday in Park with George. Have you seen the play?

Ryan: No, I haven't.

Navid: Okay. Sunday in Park with George is a Sondheim play. It’s a musical. And it's about this guy who is going back to his hometown. He travels through the park that he used to grow up in, and when he travels through the park, every tree, every bench, brings back a memory. And the director was looking for someone who can portray all those emotions while the singer is going from one place to another place.

I went on my audition, and I couldn't even speak German. And I didn't have a work permit. I couldn't work for a theater, because I was a refugee. So I went to the police station, and I asked them: “Can you please give me a work permit? I want to work in the theater.” And they were telling me, “No.” I said, “I don't need any money. I don't want any governmental help. Please — give me just permission so I can go and work in the theater.” Then they gave me the permission. I went, and I got the part.

So when I was there, the head of the Auslander — the police department for all the immigrants — he showed up to our opening, and he brought the entire staff from the police department. They came — and, oh my gosh, it was just magnificent.

Ryan: Because the police came to the show?

Navid: No; it was that they cared. They cared about this kid who's coming from other parts of the world. He's coming here, and he's having a dream. And they were the ones who were handing me the pass to go and get on my train for my journey.

Ryan: So they didn't actually come to the show. They just realized what a big deal this was — that they were going to get you this permit. I love it.

Navid: Yeah. And they came to support me. They came to be there in the show, to show that they are supporting me, and they care about me.

Ryan: That's what I thought you said — that they showed up at the show, and that you had this huge contingent of supporters that really only knew you because of the experience of trying to get the permit.

Navid: Yeah. That was magnificent. And then, see — that mime training? It gave me my break when I came to the US; when I came here for the first... my gosh. I got here in ’93, and I couldn't speak English. At my very first job, I was washing cars for $1.50 an hour. And then I saw this ad. There was a movie they were shooting, and they were looking for a mute trombonist. At that time, I didn't even know what trombone is, so I went to the college. I asked one of the music kids to come and show me how to use the trombone to make noises. And then I said, “Okay, I will go for an audition.”

I went for audition, and walking in, I see all these guys with their cases; with their trombones. They’re checking their spit valves. They’re there. And I'm standing there like a goofball, looking at them like a lost puppy. And then I got my turn. I went in, and I said, “What am I doing here?” So I started miming everything. Then the director pulled me out, and he said, “I loved it, because I'm looking for a Charles Chaplin kind of character, or Buster Keaton. And you brought all the emotions. But I have a problem. You are too tall for me. And at the same time, I'm looking for someone who is not —“ Please forgive me. This is what he said. I don't think of that. But he said, “I'm looking for someone who's not as good looking as you are.”

Ryan: In the most humble way possible that you could retell the story.

Navid: Yeah. I said, “Okay, give me one chance. Let me come back.” And I went to a secondhand store. I bought one of those old tuxedo frogs, the ones that has a tail. I bought one of those jackets. I went home. I made a bow tie from the fabrics that I had, and then I had baggy pants. I made a straw hat out of the shoe box, and I sprayed it black. And when you are wearing baggy pants, if you bend your knees, you can be lower. Then I put some makeup on my face; I did the eyeliner. And I went over there and I knocked on the door. This took a couple days until I went back for a callback. He opened a door. He just stared at me, and he said, “This is the guy. This is who I've been looking for.” And I got the part.

That film went to Slamdance; won the grand jury at Slamdance. At one of the festivals, I was nominated for Best Actor. The film came to Egyptian theaters. And I started my career. So, you see — what the universe gave me, most people would walk away from. And I cherish that. I appreciated that gift when I was 16 or 17 years old. It gave me tools that I needed all along the way, and I'm still using it. I'm still using it in my work.

Ryan: Did you have that kind of connected spirituality from a young age, or did that emerge over time for you?

Navid: I think I was very curious. I was very curious about where I came from. I was very curious about what connects me with objects; with what's around me, or the people. I remember I used to walk around, and every time I talked to the people, I had to have my hand on their shoulder. I had to touch their hand. Even since I was a kid, I had to connect with them physically. And then I realized, later on — I learned that every time I'm connecting with them, it calms them. Every time I'm connecting with them, it creates some kind of beautiful light around us. And that kind of became my way of seeing the world; my way of being.

I remember I used to ask my parents all the time: “Where do I come from? How did it happen? What's going on?” And it was a book that my dad got for me. Just imagine; it’s in Iran. We’re talking the early or late 60s. My dad bought me a book. This book was one of those pop-up books that you open, and the pages that pop up become images. And the name of the book was, “Where Do I Come From?” And when you see that, you will see images of male and female; of the sperm; how it connects; how it multiplies the cell, and all those things. Oh my gosh; I was going to school as if I was the God of Knowledge. I knew, but nobody else knew at this school.

So, my parents — I think, every time I asked a question, they never told me, “Oh, you don't need to know,” or, “This is because I said so.” I was always able to challenge them. And they always welcomed my challenge. And we were always discussing all the different issues. It doesn't matter what it is. I never remember that my mom or my dad would tell me, “You do it because I said so.” It was always, “Okay, so this is what we are thinking. What do you think? How should we do this?” So, that was one of the biggest gifts.

Ryan: Who was more curious — your father, or your mother?

Navid: They both passed away. But I think my mom was very, very curious. Oh, my gosh; she came here. I got them both green cards. They came to visit, and my dad would go to school. Just imagine; okay, you have to see it. My dad was a military guy. And then he became a banker. And then he was a director of the bank. He wouldn't allow himself to make a mistake. Sometimes he would do just the things that he knows how to do, or he wouldn't do it until he was 100% sure that he was doing it the right way — at least, based on his opinion.

My mom, on the other hand — she was a teacher. She was curious about everything. She would run around, and she would walk to the places that would scare all of us. But she would go, and she would come back safe. And she said, “Oh, this is what I learned. Oh, this is what it is.” That was my mom.

I remember... let me tell you a story about my mom. My mom was five foot 2 or 3. She was she was living with me. And at that time, I was married. My wife was American. It was a little bit rough between them. And so, one day I went to work, and then I came back at 5:00, and my mom is not home. I asked my ex. I said, “Where is my mom?” “Oh, I don't know. She left in the morning.” “She left in the morning? You didn't bother to call me, or worry, or ask where she went?” She said, “Oh, I don't know. She just went. You know, she doesn't speak English. She just said goodbye, and I said bye. She left.”

I said, “Okay.” I called my mom. I said, “I speak Farsi. You could have told me. I would have called her.” I called my mom, and said, “Mom, where are you?” She said, “Oh, I'm coming back. I went to Ross.” I said, “Mom, we don't have a Ross close to our house. Where did you go?” She said, “No, no; you have.” I said, “So where are you?” She said, “You know, I came out of your house. I turned left, then I turned right, and then I turned left. I'm on that street coming up.” I said, “Okay, wait; I'm coming to find you.”

I go over there. I drive, and I see that my mom is coming, and we are up the hill. My mom is coming up the hill with two Ross bags, one on each shoulder, and she's completely covered with her hijab. And she's climbing up the hill with these two bags, huge bags, almost as big as she is. So I went over there, and I picked her up. I said, “Mom, where did you go?”

Now, the Ross is about 5 or 6 miles away from us, on the other side of the freeway. My mom says, “Pssh. You think I don't speak English? I came outside. There was a man on a bike. I said, ‘stop, stop, stop!’ He stopped. I said, ‘Sir, excuse me, Ross here or no here?’ He said, ‘Yes, here.’ I said, ‘Where?’ He said ‘There.’ I said ‘Far?’” Just imagine she holds her hands close to each other. “Far, or far?” — and she brings her hands apart. The guy says, “Far,” and my mom says, “Thank you.” She said, “So I went to Ross. You think I need you?” This is my mom.

Ryan: She's an adventurer.

Navid: She was. She was a Speedy Gonzalez. We used to call her Speedy Gonzales, because you're talking to her — all of a sudden, you turn around, and she's gone. You don't know where she is. And then she calls you, and you see that she's on the other side of the town. We had fun.

Ryan: You seem to have a deeply empathetic spirit. Did she have a spirit like that?

Navid: She was very connected. She cared about everyone. She was visiting me; at that time, I was in San Diego. I was going to college. She came to visit me, and at that time, I had an Italian girlfriend. Just imagine. My mom was very religious. She practiced. She always had her hijab. So, this girl comes and stays with us. My mom used to sleep in the living room; she would sleep with me in the bedroom. And my mom, every morning, gets up, makes breakfast for us when we are ready, and goes. And that was it.

One day, the girl came home, and she was a little bit upset. My mom said, “What is wrong? Ask her. Why is she sad?” I asked her if she was going to the wedding; she was a bridesmaid. But at that time, we were broke, so the dress was very expensive, and she couldn't afford the dress. She was upset because of that. My mom said, “Oh, show me a picture.” We saw the picture. She said, “Take me to the fabric store.” We went to the fabric store. She bought the fabric. She bought everything. We came home.

I went to work the next day. I came back. I opened the door. As soon as I opened the door, all of a sudden, my mom is screaming at me: “Get out, get out, get out!” And I got scared. “I'm walking outside; I'm coming out.” And then she comes outside. She says, “Don't you see? She's standing there naked?” Because my mom pinned the fabric on her to make the dress for her. And then I said, “Mom, where do you think she's sleeping at night? You think when she's in the bedroom, she's clothed? She's naked.” She said, “Yes. That is your business. I asked her to take her clothes off. That's why I'm protecting her. You cannot come in until she is dressed.” I said, “Okay.”

She went, and she made that dress for her. This girl; she's married. She has kids. Still, to this day, she says, “What your mom did, nobody has ever done for me.”

Ryan: She’s a beautiful person.

Navid: She was. She was kind of wacky. She was kind of crazy, like me. But that's what it was.

Ryan: It kind of goes together, though, doesn't it? I mean, did you ever see the most recent Alice in Wonderland movie, with Johnny Depp — where he plays the Mad Hatter?

Navid: Oh, no, I haven't seen it.

Ryan: It's worth seeing. But the very beginning of the movie is a scene with Alice — young Alice, ten years old. And she's with her father. She comes into a meeting to interrupt her father, and her father realizes that she'd been having a bad dream. And so he takes her to the other room, and they're talking, and she starts to tell him about Wonderland in her dream. She says to her father, “Do you think I'm mad?” And he says, “Oh, yeah; you're bonkers. ‘Round the bend. But I'll tell you a secret. All the best people are.”

I just love that line. And it sounds like, when you're talking about your mom, this is a wonderful human being who also had a crazy streak — and that oftentimes goes together.

Navid: It was beautiful. And that's the way that it’s supposed to be. I mean, you have to learn how to see the world through your own eyes. You have to see the people through your own eyes. There's an expression that I grew up with. I live my life by it. It says, “You can see the truth when you are blind, and you can hear the truth when you are deaf.” So, you're going into the connections. You're connecting with the people. See them for who they are, not what you heard they might be.

Ryan: What kind of spiritual exercises do you do to get yourself plugged in in that way?

Navid: Do I have to label it?

Ryan: No, no. I'm just...

Navid: See, Ryan — the thing is, the way that I see myself is that I'm part of this universe, and I'm just a guest. I'm passing through. The vessel is a gift. You're going through; you’re finding your clan. If you are blind, there is no way that you're going to be able to find your people. Each of us, we have our own tribes. So, the only way that we can find our tribes — the only way that we can connect; truly, truly connect — is by being open.

But I've been burned many times through my friendships, relationships, and business. I've had some friends who asked me, “Why do you keep doing exactly the same thing again and again and again?” I say, “You know, I shouldn't be changing myself because of someone else, because they are not who they should be in my world. I shouldn't be changing myself to fit into their world — because if I do it, I will never find my own people.”

See, we go around, we are wearing a mask, and we are pretending to be someone who we are not. When you do that, there is no way that you will be able to find your tribe, your village, your coziness. You need to get rid of your mask. Then, the people — they will see you for who you are. The ones who are attracted to you — those are the ones who should be around you. If you wear a mask, it will be suffocating. You will get tired. It will get to a time that you will lose yourself, and you will become the mask.

Ryan: What are the characteristics of the kind of people that you think of as your tribe?

Navid: People who are very kind. They're open-minded; they're non-judgmental. And, as a tribe, everything is possible. “No” and “Can’t” doesn't exist in their vocabulary. They see the world as a world of opportunity and possibilities, and they see the word ‘impossible’ as ‘I am possible.’ These are my people. These are the people who are not with me just because they want something from me. They are with me just because we give to each other. We share our experiences with each other.

See, right now, there’s the center I'm building here in Boyle Heights — this studio and artist center. When I got this place, it was a corner lot; a gas station, mechanic shop, and a house. My dream was to turn this into a center. A community for all the artists. And when I talked to the people, everybody told me I'm crazy. So I started on my own. I said, “Don't worry about it. I will do it on my own.” I started the center; the studio.

The moment that I put the word out there, the whole grip team from Legion — they came here. They call themselves Killer Grip. They came over here; they finished the studio. We finished a studio in 14 days. I paid. So far, I've spent all my money on this center. I was depending on the acting jobs that I had. So, all my jobs — they got canceled this year. I had three projects lined up. All of them got canceled. So I'm stuck here. I still have a payment. I still have to finish the house.

And, a friend of mine said, “Why don't you do a GoFundMe?” I did a GoFundMe. People donated $5 or $10 — and I work with some of these people. Some of them, they were PA's on the set. They donated the $5 and $10, and they apologized. They said, “Navid, I'm sorry. We don't have any more of it. This is what it is. But I remember what you said that day. We would love to be part of this.”

So, everybody joined forces to finish this. The studio was finished. We had our first shoot here. They are scheduling a couple shoots to come here and shoot. And it’s starting. The house is supposed to be housing eight artists. I mean, I used to sleep on the park benches here, in the backseat of my car. So this place is exactly what I wish I had when I came here. Now, everybody's coming. Everybody's trying to help. We are struggling, but we keep moving forward. I don't know what's going to happen. As long as I don't move, I don't see if it's going to come true or not.

Ryan: So, you've lived all over the world. You've seen all sorts of fascinating situations: hard, beautiful. America's going through really interesting times. But I always am interested in hearing about what someone who's lived all over the world thinks about living in America. Share with me. If I was from a foreign country, and I'd never been to America, what would you tell me about this place?

Navid: It's a magical place. Maybe it’s the spirit, or the vibe. The limits that are being created by yourself, or by people who are around you, are not set. Unfortunately, I think we have lost our path. America used to be — I mean, everybody used to call it a land of opportunities. A land of freedom. This is the place. “If you want to dream, go to America because, your dreams there will become reality.” And it used to be the number-one country. I don't think that we are anymore.

Ryan: Where would you advise somebody to go if they were needing to emigrate out of their country and go find a new home? Where would you tell them to go?

Navid: Hah. Oh, you're getting me in trouble, Ryan.

Ryan: It's interesting.

Navid: I'm going to get a letter from the officials that says, “Thank you so much for your service, but goodbye.”

Ryan: Well, you don't have to answer if you don't want to.

Navid: You know how kind our president is. But, well, okay. Canada.

Ryan: What makes Canada now the best destination for somebody to immigrate to?

Navid: A couple years ago I was shooting a movie in Canada. I was there in the back of my hotel. I came back down the alley. I saw a kid — 17, 18 years old. He’s sweeping the street. It was raining. He would bend down, and he would pick teeny tiny leaves from the corner of the street. He would put them in the pile. He would clean everything. It was like he was cleaning up his bedroom. He's so precise. I walked up to him, and I said, “Thank you so much for doing that. This is amazing, what you're doing. What is this about? Is that what you do. Is this your work?”

He said, “No, no. I'm a high school kid, and so we are helping the city. We come, each of us. We are coming, and we are doing something in the city.” I said, “Well, this is impressive. I mean, I've never seen anything like this in in America.” And he said, “Well, we are all guests here. We are passing through, so we keep it clean for the next one who is coming through.”

A 17-year-old kid grew up in Canada, with all the privileges that he could have, with everything handed to him freely — the medical insurance; everything. He has everything. But this kid cares about who's coming after him. The way that we are here in America — the way that we are living our lives — is just ‘me, me, me, me.’ Unfortunately, the ‘me’ — it will not last. We are passing through. We are guests here. There is nothing you can take with you. You came naked. You will go naked. There is no way. It doesn't matter how beautiful your coffin is; you're not going to take that coffin with you. It's just a prison.

Ryan: So true.

Navid: So why don't you start living your life freely? See the world as what it is. Appreciate every leaf on the tree. And know that this, where you are — you're just a guest.

Ryan: So, Navid, we're running out of time. But if people wanted to help you with your center, how would they best get in touch with you? How would they contribute? Is the GoFundMe still alive? What can people do to support your efforts?

Navid: The GoFundMe is still out there. The link is Romany Artist Center and Studios. If they do check on the GoFundMe — if they want to check the videos — I have all the videos posted on my Instagram. I’m Navid Negahban. The email address for the studio is: romanystudios@gmail.com. A Romany is like a wanderer; it’s somebody who is traveling, and is always on the road in the search of home.

Ryan: It's a perfect name for your studio. You've had an amazing journey.

Navid: Thank you.

Ryan: I'm inspired by your optimism; your tenacity; your vision. I think all of us can learn incredible lessons from stories exactly like this — where you've never given up, and you've always just imagined a world as you want it to be. And you fought to make that world come into reality.

Navid: Thank you. Thank you so much, Ryan. It means a lot to me.

Ryan: Hey, thank you. This is wonderful. I really loved hearing your story, and I wish you all the best with what you're doing. I think it's an incredible gift to that neighborhood, and to all of the kids and adults who wander in there, to be able to learn this business.

Navid: Oh my gosh, there are five schools around here. Some of the neighborhood kids — they're coming, and they're helping me. They're donating their time. Some of the neighbors, they bring me lunch.

Ryan: Amazing.

Navid: The parents are passing by. They say, “So, when is the school open? When is the school open?” See, the kids are coming, and they're tagging the walls, and they're running away. Now they don't have to run away. I'm giving them free paint and free wall space. They can come and paint, and then I will take a picture. At the end of the year, we will have an exhibition for them, and whatever art piece is sold, the kid will get their money. So, this is what I'm trying to create.

Ryan: How much money do you need to finish it up?

Navid: To finish the house? I need $150,000. To finish the ice cream / coffee shop in the front — that will help the artist to generate some money — that, I haven't even gotten an estimate on. This was supposed to be an ice cream / coffee shop, a studio, and a living space. The studio is a multi-purpose studio — it can be used as a painting studio, photography, film studio, and theater space. So the artists will use the facility to create; to develop their art; to do whatever they want to do. That has been my vision. It’s kind of like ‘Boys Town.’ Have you seen the movie ‘Boys Town?’

Ryan: Yes, I know what you're talking about.

Navid: The one with Spencer Tracy and Mickey Rooney.

Ryan: Yes.

Navid: That has been my idea; to create this and put it together. Unfortunately, there have been some bumps on the road.

Ryan: Always are.

Navid: But this too shall pass.

Ryan: Well, I'd love to talk to you more about that. You know, we've got issues we're working through, just with COVID, too. But later in the summer, I'd love to talk more about the detail. And if you have any detail you can send me in the meantime, I'd love to start looking at it, because there may be ways for us to partner together on that.

Navid: Ryan, any help — even if somebody has old equipment that they don't need. Old lights, old cameras, tripods.

Ryan: Yeah, I know people who probably have that stuff. So definitely send that to me and I'll start doing some work.

Navid: Beautiful.

Ryan: Thanks, Navid.

Navid: Thank you so much. I appreciate it; truly grateful.

Ryan: Thank you for the time. Wonderful to talk to you. And I'll look forward to the next time. I'm Ryan Millsap and this is the Blackhall Studios Podcast.

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Ryan: I'll leave you guys with thoughts that I write on Instagram. “When all faith and hope seem lost, do not give up. Dig deep. Stay centered. Put one foot in front of the other and never ever give up.”

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